NFL Most Valuable Player

[ThriftWhore]

Who do you think will end up Most Valuable Player at the end of the year?

[still_life]

A co-MVP between Peyton Manning and Shaun Alexander.

[somethingyellow]

carson palmer

[ActorInThisPlay]

edgerrin james right now. sure Peyton is doing well but edgerrin is putting up some monster numbers this year. Peyton is not having close to the season he had last year.

If the Chargers make it to the playoffs then LT should get it for sure but if not, I think it should be Edge.

[Vanity__Dearest]

shaun alexander and peyton...like still_life said...but if i had to pick on, shaun alexander...he's the major weapon on the seahawks, indy has 4 or 5.

[yeat182]

alexander, but how can you leave Tom Brady off that list?

[getupkid53]

a tie.... Curtis Martin and Jamal Lewis.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Shaun

[Drew Beringer]

Edge

[Vincewithouthee]

Shaun Alexander. Easy choice.

[Goodbye Forever]

Alexander.

[trjlangdon]

Toss-up between Steve Smith and Shaun Alexander. Alexander is having a phenomenal season like always, but Smith is on fire, plus he's coming off a broken leg that kept him out last year. I like Steve Smith to win it if voting was today

[still_life]

Forget Edge, anyone that watches one Colts game can see why that team performs the way it does, it's the QB running things. Early on Edge was getting the yards, because teams were defending the long passes, and Manning was just changing the plays to runs and Edge was getting 5 yards before contact. Notice the last few games how teams want to shut down Edge, so Manning's numbers have went up while Edge's went down. It doesn't matter if he doesn't have 49 TDs, in a way he's playing better than last year.

[wakeupgomer]

I think it's definitely L.T.--the guy does it all! He's single-handedly saved Drew Brees' career.

[mat1419]

my criteria is basically take this player out, and is how does the team do...

so i went with LT. LT is the reason they move on offense.

then i have shaun alexander, plummer (amazingly), and peyton. I could see an argument for Alexander over LT. I take Plummer next because I think without his sudden Manningesqe game management the Broncos wouldn't even make the playoffs in the NFC. I have Manning 4th simply because, despite his great talent, he's also got a great new defense, a great running back, and an amazing group of receivers. Taking nothing away from what he does, but it's very tough to win the MVP when you have an all star team around you.

[wakeupgomer]

a tie.... Curtis Martin and Jamal Lewis.

That's the hardest I've laughed all day. I think I'm going to throw up turkey. I can't believe both of these guys have flopped so bad this year!

[weezer182]

its going to depend how the rest of the year plays out

[Scott Weber]

shaun alexander - are you kidding me? nobody else comes close right now. not only is he the best statistically, he's been reliable and is the main reason the hawks are 8-2.

[AshesAshes]

I voted plummer just because im a denver fan.

Alexander should get it.

[yeat182]

can someone still explain how tom brady isn't on the list?

[still_life]

can someone still explain how tom brady isn't on the list?

Considering some of the people in this list, he should be included. But in general, Brady's not even a top 4 or 5 QB in the AFC this year, let alone the MVP.

[still_life]

LT has offensive player of the year written all over him with all the rushing/receiving/passing numbers he has, not a MVP. I don't see how someone can vote MVP for a RB that put up 7 pathetic yards in a loss to Philly. He wasn't too good in the other losses either. Brees/Gates/McCardell have done their share of carrying this offense this year.

[yeat182]

Considering some of the people in this list, he should be included. But in general, Brady's not even a top 4 or 5 QB in the AFC this year, let alone the MVP.

first, he's certainly better than most of the QB's on that list if not all of them, second he is without a doubt the most valuable member on his team this year. i'm not saying he should win, but he deserves to be on the list, especially ahead of Jake Plummer, Edgerrin James, Chad Johnson and Antonio Gates.

[still_life]

first, he's certainly better than most of the QB's on that list if not all of them, second he is without a doubt the most valuable member on his team this year. i'm not saying he should win, but he deserves to be on the list, especially ahead of Jake Plummer, Edgerrin James, Chad Johnson and Antonio Gates.

He's probably better than Eli Manning (that comp. % is just too atrocious for me), but I don't see how he's playing better than the other QBs. Like I said, 4th or 5th best in the AFC alone for a QB. And even if he's most valuable to his team, they're only 6-4 and struggling this year. That doesn't sound like a MVP at all. Not to mention his complete disappearing acts for the first or second half of many games this year.

[Spicoli hey bud]

can someone still explain how tom brady isn't on the list?
tell me you're joking?

Shaun is hands down MVP right now

other than Edge, LaDanian and Steve Smith...Nobody really has a shot

[Talib Scottie]

Shaun Alexander has stepped up big time

[yeat182]

He's probably better than Eli Manning (that comp. % is just too atrocious for me), but I don't see how he's playing better than the other QBs. Like I said, 4th or 5th best in the AFC alone for a QB. And even if he's most valuable to his team, they're only 6-4 and struggling this year. That doesn't sound like a MVP at all. Not to mention his complete disappearing acts for the first or second half of many games this year.

he's got more yardage than any other QB and fewer ints than most of the them, and as for their record, without Brady they'd be 0-10 right now with all the injuries. He's the only thing keeping them above .500 and the only thing they can rely on this year. And his complete disappearing act? I don't think you've been watching the games, granted he's had times when he's struggled to move the ball, like any QB, but in the 2nd half he's the best, the team just has so many injuries they haven't been able to pull out any of the games. Again, he deserves to at least be on the list, especially with some of those other QB's.

[yeat182]

tell me you're joking?

Shaun is hands down MVP right now

other than Edge, LaDanian and Steve Smith...Nobody really has a shot

how about i tell you to read the posts?

[Spicoli hey bud]

how about i tell you to read the posts?
Not really sure where you're going with this one

[splitsecond]

I voted Steve Smith just for the fact that he leads the league in everything coming off an injury year, and carries the Panthers most of the time. Plus he isnt a big guy, which makes his accomplishments even more amazing.

Probably realistically I would say Alexander. None of the colts should get it because its been more of a team effort this year, none of them are particularly more valuable than the other.

[hockey0001]

can someone still explain how tom brady isn't on the list?

After seeing some of the other people who are on the list, Brady should be on there. I dont think he should get MVP, but he deserves to mentioned.

I voted for Alexander. He's been great all season. If the Colts go undefeated it will go to Manning, but if they lose a game, i think Alexander should get it.

[yeat182]

Not really sure where you're going with this one

because you said tell me you are joking, and if you had read my posts you'd know that i said alexander should win it this year (at this point in the season)

[xearlynovemberx]

im mvp of the nfl

[chroma23]

Steve Smith, Alexander, or LT.... hmmm

[still_life]

he's got more yardage than any other QB and fewer ints than most of the them, and as for their record, without Brady they'd be 0-10 right now with all the injuries. He's the only thing keeping them above .500 and the only thing they can rely on this year. And his complete disappearing act? I don't think you've been watching the games, granted he's had times when he's struggled to move the ball, like any QB, but in the 2nd half he's the best, the team just has so many injuries they haven't been able to pull out any of the games. Again, he deserves to at least be on the list, especially with some of those other QB's.

Yardage can be a hollow stat. And his receivers also lead the league in YAC by far. He's throwing a lot more screen passes and little dink and dunks this year, and they're making moves to gain big yardage for him.

Falcons would be 0-10 without Vick, Steelers would be 0-10 without Roethlisberger, Colts would be 0-10 without Manning, Packers would be 0-10 without Favre, etc. etc. Yeah we get that dumb argument all the time. Of course a team's going to struggle without the starting QB, unless it's the Baltimore Ravens.

I've mentioned this on another board, but Brady was to blame for many of the losses as much as the defense was. Against Carolina, he had many 3rd down incompletions, and couldn't do anything after the defense gave him a 20-17 deficit. Then he had a sack/fumble that set Carolina up in easy scoring range. His stats in the second half against San Diego after a solid first quarter shootout were pathetic. I believe he was 5/9 for 22 yards and an INT. They scored no points in the second half. Then against Denver, after two Denver scores, Brady went 3 and out, pretty much ending that one early. He's had chances to get his team back into games, but it hasn't happened often.

[Fullcollapse3k]

Right now, Shaun Alexander.

[Scott Weber]

Right now, Shaun Alexander.
He's on pace to break the touchdown record this year with relative ease.

[still_life]

He can break the TD record with 30 on the year, but probably still not win MVP. QBs are favored here. Look at 2003. Jamal was the Baltimore offense with 2000+ rushing yards, and Priest had the TD record on the #1 offense and 13-3 team. Yet neither could get Steve McNair out of a co-MVP. McNair didn't set records or even play all 16 games, yet still got his share.

[Scott Weber]

He can break the TD record with 30 on the year, but probably still not win MVP. QBs are favored here. Look at 2003. Jamal was the Baltimore offense with 2000+ rushing yards, and Priest had the TD record on the #1 offense and 13-3 team. Yet neither could get Steve McNair out of a co-MVP. McNair didn't set records or even play all 16 games, yet still got his share.
I would have to completely disagree with you here. I think Shaun Alexander is the CLEAR favorite for MVP at this point, considering how incredible his season is (yardage, consistency, touchdowns) as well as how great the Seahawks are playing and how much he's been a part of that.

[selftitled85]

I would have to completely disagree with you here. I think Shaun Alexander is the CLEAR favorite for MVP at this point, considering how incredible his season is (yardage, consistency, touchdowns) as well as how great the Seahawks are playing and how much he's been a part of that.

same thing could be said for steve smith though.

[Scott Weber]

same thing could be said for steve smith though.
Not really - Shaun Alexander is having a far better season that Steve Smith. Look at the projected numbers on ESPN.

[cuetheflames]

no one can stop manning. hes just too good.

[Scott Weber]

Colts would be 0-10 without Manning
I'm sorry, I skipped over that and I would like to just say ...


HA


you can't be serious. Definitely not 10-0, but 0-10? Come on, they could have the offense of the Texans and still be 5-5 with the way that defense has been playing this year.

[still_life]

I'm sorry, I skipped over that and I would like to just say ...
HA
you can't be serious. Definitely not 10-0, but 0-10? Come on, they could have the offense of the Texans and still be 5-5 with the way that defense has been playing this year.

What has the defense been doing against teams lately? Sacks are down, Freeney hasn't done much, and teams are gashing them with the run. Sure, much like the 00 Ravens, they feasted their defensive stats on poor offensive teams early in the year, but they've given up at least 17 points in the last 5 games. This team looks just like the 04 Colts right now, with more efficiency on offense. (25 TDs on last 50 possessions) Only difference is their whole playoff run should be in a dome and not outdoors. Much like the 99 Rams.

[still_life]

And about SA, this team can clinch their division with a win this week. Pretty soon they could be clinching homefield, so he might not even play much of the rest of the season, while LT will as they fight to make the playoffs. And no more games against the Texans or Cardinals for Alexander, so I doubt he has 2000/30 this year.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Quarterbacks have won the award 32 times, running backs 14 times, linebackers twice, defensive ends once, defensive tackles once and a kicker once. The fact that QBs are chosen more than twice as much scares me into thinking that Shaun may not win it. I would say he would be a lock if Seattle continues to have success throughout the remainder of the season, but even so, I'd still put money on him winning it over anyone else.

The only other person I can think of that has yet to be mentioned is Dwight Freeney. He is responsible for making that defense as good as it had been thus far. Sure, as of late they have not been as solid as they were in the first half, but they still have yet to allow more points than the other team has scored, making them undefeated.

[Katie Schmitz]

Peyton Manning

[still_life]

Freeney has just 2 tackles and a sack in his last 3 games combined. I'm not even sure if he's the best player on his own defense (Mathis, June). I hear he's playing hurt though.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Freeney has just 2 tackles and a sack in his last 3 games combined. I'm not even sure if he's the best player on his own defense (Mathis, June). I hear he's playing hurt though.
yea exactly. If you were talking about the first half MVP, Freeney could have been the guy, but he has dropped off as of late due to some nagging injuries. June is probably the only other guy on that defense that I would call a superstar right now.

[still_life]

I don't think Freeney was ever a MVP. He looked like the first half DPOY, now I'm not sure who will win that.

[Spicoli hey bud]

I don't think Freeney was ever a MVP. He looked like the first half DPOY, now I'm not sure who will win that.
That defense was on pace to break some serious records. Freeney was a big reason behind that. He made everyone around him better. I'm not saying he should have been considered the frontrunner for MVP, but he should most definitely have his effect taken into consideration. Let's call it the "Freeney Effect," if you will.

[DroppedUrPocket]

Joe Montana.

[xearlynovemberx]

johnny unitas for mvp

giants will win sunday

[dangets]

probably alexander

but i voted for Roethlisberger because tommy maddox has a sandy vagina

[Spicoli hey bud]

probably alexander

but i voted for Roethlisberger because tommy maddox has a sandy vagina
wonderful reasoning

[piebaldkid42]

i'd love to say LT but i mean sean alexander is just putting up HUGE numbers. 19 touchdowns? thats crazy.

hopefully the g-men shut him down this sunday.

[still_life]

I'd vote for Roethlisberger if he didn't miss 4 games. I find it hard to vote MVP for someone that misses games. That's a big reason I don't believe McNair should have won it in 2003.

[xearlynovemberx]

i'd love to say LT but i mean sean alexander is just putting up HUGE numbers. 19 touchdowns? thats crazy.

hopefully the g-men shut him down this sunday.

i hope so 2 but i mean if they couldnt stop lt..yeah

[itsjdiggity]

LT is fucking incredible...and mcnair played good hurt

[still_life]

Fuck Alexander, LT just moved up on him. That was ownage of Washington today.

[Scott Weber]

Fuck Alexander, LT just moved up on him. That was ownage of Washington today.
too bad Alexander's numbers destroy LT's. Sorry. There's no better back in the NFL at this point than Alexander. Hawks are having a rough time with the giants though, Alexander has only gotten 7 carries at the half.

[still_life]

How does Alexander's numbers destroy LT's? You mean his stat padding numbers in routs against teams like Houston and Arizona? When did he ever put a team on his back this year and dominate a game like LT did today?

LT: 277 touches, 1448 yards, 22 TDs
Alexander: 253 touches, 1312 yards, 19 TDs

Better on all accounts.

[Scott Weber]

How does Alexander's numbers destroy LT's? You mean his stat padding numbers in routs against teams like Houston and Arizona? When did he ever put a team on his back this year and dominate a game like LT did today?

LT: 277 touches, 1448 yards, 22 TDs
Alexander: 253 touches, 1312 yards, 19 TDs

Better on all accounts.
?????

Ohhhh, you're combining rushing and receiving. Whatever. It's easy to manipulate stats to make an argument whenever you please. Shaun has put the Hawks on his back all year long, if you read NFL analysts at all, you'd know he's the reason the hawks are 8-2.

[still_life]

What's the difference if a guy's rushing for yards or catching passes for yards or scores? If anything it makes the case better, because LT's more versatile. More yards, more TDs, better football player. Brees stunk today (3 picks), but LT brought his team back with a 60+ yard TD run, and broke one for 41 in OT to seal it.

[still_life]

And it's obvious what the big knock on Alexander is. Who wouldn't be productive running behind Hutchinson and Walter Jones? That's probably why Holmes and Jamal Lewis didn't get anything in 2003. They had guys like Ogden and Willie Roaf leading their way. See that 20 yard run Alexander had moments ago? Left side.

[Scott Weber]

And it's obvious what the big knock on Alexander is. Who wouldn't be productive running behind Hutchinson and Walter Jones? That's probably why Holmes and Jamal Lewis didn't get anything in 2003. They had guys like Ogden and Willie Roaf leading their way. See that 20 yard run Alexander had moments ago? Left side.
lol. hutchison and walter jones have been in seattle for YEARS...hutch 5, Jones since '97. didn't see ricky watters getting any MVP consideration. Seattle doesn't rely on Alexander for catching, he's not that type of back. doesn't take away from his value to the team.

[still_life]

Ricky Watters was past his prime then. Seattle has the best left side of an o-line in the league, and one of the best overall lines. Why do you think the night Alexander had a big game against Houston his back up even had a 100 yard game? Hasselbeck could have rushed for 100 that game if he wanted.

Alexander's not that versatile, I know. That's why LT's the best overall back. In fact if Larry Johnson was starting the beginning of the season, I bet he'd be better than Alexander too. That guy's a stud.

[xAnothrLostSoul]

Jake the Snake has turned the broncos around.

[Scott Weber]

Ricky Watters was past his prime then. Seattle has the best left side of an o-line in the league, and one of the best overall lines. Why do you think the night Alexander had a big game against Houston his back up even had a 100 yard game? Hasselbeck could have rushed for 100 that game if he wanted.

Alexander's not that versatile, I know. That's why LT's the best overall back. In fact if Larry Johnson was starting the beginning of the season, I bet he'd be better than Alexander too. That guy's a stud.
someday people will give alexander the respect he deserves. even today, against a spectacular NY defense, he managed to get the big plays when seattle needed it in OT. quite simply - there is no better RUSHER in the NFL than Shaun.

[still_life]

Spectacular? Not really. I'd give more credit to Barber today than Alexander. First RB to break 100 on Seattle this year.

Alexander shouldn't have even had a chance to make a play in OT. Feely blew it. And LT and as the games go on, LJ are better rushers. Did you not see LT's game winning run in OT? He planted a guy into the ground on the way to paydirt.

[Scott Weber]

Spectacular? Not really. I'd give more credit to Barber today than Alexander. First RB to break 100 on Seattle this year.

Alexander shouldn't have even had a chance to make a play in OT. Feely blew it. And LT and as the games go on, LJ are better rushers. Did you not see LT's game winning run in OT? He planted a guy into the ground on the way to paydirt.
Yeah dude, LT is killer, no doubt. But we're not comparing just one game, are we? Seems like you are. Even though Shaun didn't have a great game, 110 yards is solid any way you look at it. Shaun is still on pace to break the touchdown record (ALL of them rushing, which is insane). You still haven't touched on that yet - inside the red zone, there is NOBODY better than Alexander at getting the ball in the end zone. You simply can't argue with that. (By the way, Barber wouldn't have gotten a chance for all those extra yards in OT if Seattle hadn't of blown it and let NY march right down and score, then get the conversion :thumbsup:)

[still_life]

Their seasons are close enough to where each week makes a difference on who's having a better year. LT was simply amazing today, while Alexander needed 30+ carries to barely break 100 yards.

You still haven't touched on that yet - inside the red zone, there is NOBODY better than Alexander at getting the ball in the end zone. You simply can't argue with that.

Priest Holmes by far is the best there.

[rcrook]

i think jay feeley should be MVP. no doubt about that one.

[Scott Weber]

Their seasons are close enough to where each week makes a difference on who's having a better year. LT was simply amazing today, while Alexander needed 30+ carries to barely break 100 yards.



Priest Holmes by far is the best there.
LT - Yards per carry = 4.2 yards.
Shaun - Yards per carry = 5.3 yards.

no better measure than that - I don't think the seasons are that close when it's a full yard...you're done.


You honestly think Priest Holmes is better at getting the ball into the end zone in the red zone than Shaun? I thought you were well-educated on stats man.....guess not. Take a look at past seasons (since I'm assuming you're ignoring this season, where you'd have to be an idiot to think anybody has been more effective inside the red than Shaun) and see how many TD's Shaun has had over the past few years, how reliable he's been at scoring in the red.

[still_life]

Try naming an o-lineman on San Diego without looking. LT doesn't have the Pro Bowl players Alexander has to run behind, and he still produces like crazy. I don't care about ypc when yards from scrimmage are still in LT's favor. YPC can be skewed by a long run here and there that might not even have an impact on the game.

I wish a KC fan was on here. Any knowledgeable NFL fan for that matter would know Priest Holmes is the best when it comes to getting to the endzone. No one scored more TDs in a 3 year period in NFL history than Holmes. He had 15 last year in a little over half the season. He's been the best near the goal line.

[Scott Weber]

Try naming an o-lineman on San Diego without looking. LT doesn't have the Pro Bowl players Alexander has to run behind, and he still produces like crazy. I don't care about ypc when yards from scrimmage are still in LT's favor. YPC can be skewed by a long run here and there that might not even have an impact on the game.

I wish a KC fan was on here. Any knowledgeable NFL fan for that matter would know Priest Holmes is the best when it comes to getting to the endzone. No one scored more TDs in a 3 year period in NFL history than Holmes. He had 15 last year in a little over half the season. He's been the best near the goal line.
any knowledgable NFL fan? Awww, we've resorted to taking shots now? That's pathetic. Priest had 6 TDs through 7 games before he got hurt. Shaun had 12. I've also watched analysts all year long call Shaun the best in the league. If Priest were healthy, you might have an argument otherwise. Nobody's knocking LT, he's the most dangerous threat in the NFL right now for a RB, but his rushing numbers don't stack up consistency-wise with Alexander. Do you ever read/watch ESPN, or just the games? It's not a shot, I'm just curious, since you tend to argue things that are against what "experts" say.

[itsjdiggity]

"analysts" and "experts" are wastes of space

[Scott Weber]

"analysts" and "experts" are wastes of space
we all know you don't listen to them since you think Nick Collison is the best player in the NBA, haha

[itsjdiggity]

haha...i just think its useless for people to get paid a lot based on opinions...that's why i love it when stephen a smith and skip bayless are wrong

[still_life]

any knowledgable NFL fan? Awww, we've resorted to taking shots now? That's pathetic. Priest had 6 TDs through 7 games before he got hurt. Shaun had 12. I've also watched analysts all year long call Shaun the best in the league. If Priest were healthy, you might have an argument otherwise. Nobody's knocking LT, he's the most dangerous threat in the NFL right now for a RB, but his rushing numbers don't stack up consistency-wise with Alexander. Do you ever read/watch ESPN, or just the games? It's not a shot, I'm just curious, since you tend to argue things that are against what "experts" say.

Did you forget Larry Johnson? Alexander doesn't have anyone stealing carries from him at the goal line this year. Priest's year has been messed up from injury and the emergence of LJ, but that still doesn't mean he's been the best goal line back of the decade.

ESPN's NFL analysts include Darren Woodson, Ron Jaworski, Sean Salisbury, and Michael Irvin, so that doesn't mean much at all to me. NFL players don't even think highly of Alexander. I'm sure if defenses were asked which RB they'd rather defend, they'd pick Alexander. He's soft.

[Scott Weber]

Did you forget Larry Johnson? Alexander doesn't have anyone stealing carries from him at the goal line this year. Priest's year has been messed up from injury and the emergence of LJ, but that still doesn't mean he's been the best goal line back of the decade.

ESPN's NFL analysts include Darren Woodson, Ron Jaworski, Sean Salisbury, and Michael Irvin, so that doesn't mean much at all to me. NFL players don't even think highly of Alexander. I'm sure if defenses were asked which RB they'd rather defend, they'd pick Alexander. He's soft.
oh, do you have NFL players in your sidekick? Sucks that the Chiefs call plays for Larry Johnson in the red zone if Priest is so reliable. Haha, I love that you called one of the toughest and most steady RBs in the NFL "soft." I'm just going to assume you've never watched Shaun make 5 yards out of carries that everyone else (including LT) would get for 2 or 3. There's a difference between being a methodical and patient runner and a soft runner.

[Talib Scottie]

Shaun and LT are by far the two best backs in the NFL with their very different styles.

[still_life]

If you have a 1st round pick with such talent like Larry Johnson, you're going to give him series. And he's not nearly as good in the redzone as Priest.

You bring up experts, yet never heard them constantly refer to Seattle as soft? That's all they'd say about this team, because it's been true.

I'll watch the week by week highlights of LT and Alexander tomorrow on this fantasy football channel I have and see who's making the more impressive plays. With what I've seen this year, I'm betting it's LT.

[Scott Weber]

If you have a 1st round pick with such talent like Larry Johnson, you're going to give him series. And he's not nearly as good in the redzone as Priest.

You bring up experts, yet never heard them constantly refer to Seattle as soft? That's all they'd say about this team, because it's been true.

I'll watch the week by week highlights of LT and Alexander tomorrow on this fantasy football channel I have and see who's making the more impressive plays. With what I've seen this year, I'm betting it's LT.
So now it's about spectacular plays? Is that what merits the best back? Man, you're backpedaling in a hurry. If you have a fantasy football channel, you'd know that Shaun is a fantasy wet dream. I guess you haven't paid much attention to the experts THIS year. Seattle's been considered nothing but soft for 3 years now, but this year everyone is giving them respect. Stay tuned for next week's power rankings.

You give your first round back series outside the red zone. when you're in the money zone, priest should be getting the carries - that is, if LJ is really "taking away" from Priest's TDs, like you claimed earlier.

[still_life]

It doesn't have to be a spectacular play. Nothing wrong with an 8 yard run or catch.

Alexander gets TDs in bunches on weak competition, while LT tied an NFL record for ultimate consistency. What was it, 19 straight games with a TD? That's incredible. I'll take at least one TD every week instead of 4 here and there in routs against poor teams.

LJ was getting 1 out of every 3 series when Priest was healthy. That's how it worked. You don't take a guy out near the goal line to give the other guy the TD. It's his series, let him get it. That's how they worked it this year.

[Spicoli hey bud]

I'd take LT over Shaun on my team any day, but right now Shaun still has the edge for MVP over anyone. LT isn't even a top 3 contender right now, but with a few more late season wins, who knows.

[splitsecond]

I want to change my vote to LT. That man is fuckin amazing. Schottenheimer called him the best RB he has ever seen play the game today. I tend to agree.

[Talib Scottie]

I want to change my vote to LT. That man is fuckin amazing. Schottenheimer called him the best RB he has ever seen play the game today. I tend to agree.
He's so expolsive

[itsjdiggity]

how the fuck do they pick these analysts? i know i don't want greg anthony or tim legler's opinion on the nba

[Scott Weber]

It doesn't have to be a spectacular play. Nothing wrong with an 8 yard run or catch.

Alexander gets TDs in bunches on weak competition, while LT tied an NFL record for ultimate consistency. What was it, 19 straight games with a TD? That's incredible. I'll take at least one TD every week instead of 4 here and there in routs against poor teams.

LJ was getting 1 out of every 3 series when Priest was healthy. That's how it worked. You don't take a guy out near the goal line to give the other guy the TD. It's his series, let him get it. That's how they worked it this year.
Hardly, way to do your research. Shaun has at least one TD in 9 of 11 games this year. I used to value your opinion when it came to the NFL, but it's clear that some sort of bias against Alexander is hindering your views.

[yeat182]

Yardage can be a hollow stat. And his receivers also lead the league in YAC by far. He's throwing a lot more screen passes and little dink and dunks this year, and they're making moves to gain big yardage for him.
Falcons would be 0-10 without Vick, Steelers would be 0-10 without Roethlisberger, Colts would be 0-10 without Manning, Packers would be 0-10 without Favre, etc. etc. Yeah we get that dumb argument all the time. Of course a team's going to struggle without the starting QB, unless it's the Baltimore Ravens.
I've mentioned this on another board, but Brady was to blame for many of the losses as much as the defense was. Against Carolina, he had many 3rd down incompletions, and couldn't do anything after the defense gave him a 20-17 deficit. Then he had a sack/fumble that set Carolina up in easy scoring range. His stats in the second half against San Diego after a solid first quarter shootout were pathetic. I believe he was 5/9 for 22 yards and an INT. They scored no points in the second half. Then against Denver, after two Denver scores, Brady went 3 and out, pretty much ending that one early. He's had chances to get his team back into games, but it hasn't happened often.


he leads the league in passes over 20 yards. he played pretty bad yesterday though.

[Spicoli hey bud]

he leads the league in passes over 20 yards. he played pretty bad yesterday though.
worthless stat

[still_life]

Hardly, way to do your research. Shaun has at least one TD in 9 of 11 games this year. I used to value your opinion when it came to the NFL, but it's clear that some sort of bias against Alexander is hindering your views.

And Holmes is still the better back near the goal line. Look it up. espn.com game splits.

he leads the league in passes over 20 yards. he played pretty bad yesterday though

Pass plays over 20 yards, or passes thrown over 20 yards? There's a big difference. I've seen him pick up almost 30 yards on a dinky little screen pass to Heath Evans against the Saints. There's also a 45 yard TD to Daniel Graham against Atlanta and Indy (same exact play) where it's just a little dump and Graham does all the work. That's not nearly the same as putting the ball in the air more than 20 yards down the field. I've seen Brady throw some of those this year, and he's been really inaccurate.

[Web250]

WRITE IN: Jay Feeley, definately. He wins so many games for my Giants its unreal.


....
Peyton Manning is my real choice.

[Scott Weber]

And Holmes is still the better back near the goal line. Look it up. espn.com game splits.


I did look it up, they're not even close...in fact, they're hugely in favor of Alexander.

Alexander's red zone stats this year: 36 carries, 148 yards. 4.1 YPC 16 TD.
Priest's: 30 carries, 69 yards, 2.3 YPC, 5 TD.

That's a TD for Alexander in the red zone one every 2.25 carries, compared to Priest's one TD per 6 carries. That's a seriously telling sign.

Am I missing something? Not to mention that on 3rd downs this year, Shaun is averaging 7.3 a carry, while Priest averages a mere 3.5 yards. Thanks for bringing the splits to my attention, it really helped my case! How can you argue that Priest is better in the Red zone?

[still_life]

3rd down runs? How many draw plays did that include?

And why are you looking at this season? That was never even the argument. Priest Holmes, since going to KC, has been the best RB in the game near the goal line.

[Scott Weber]

3rd down runs? How many draw plays did that include?

And why are you looking at this season? That was never even the argument. Priest Holmes, since going to KC, has been the best RB in the game near the goal line.

How many draw plays did Priest's include? Oh and by the way, when the Hawks run draw plays on 3rd and long, 85% of the time they give it to Mo Morris or Mack Strong.

rofl, you told me to look at ESPN splits, buddy. there's only splits listed for 2005 - the rest give a page not found. way to do your homework. proof that you're pulling stats out of your ass? When I said Shaun was the best at getting into the end zone in the red zone, anyone with "any knowledge" (sound familiar?) would assume that it was referring to the current state of football, not 2 years ago when Priest romped all over the place and was healthy. P.S. - Since going to KC would include this year - since that's the season at hand, I'd say it's pretty safe to compare stats this year. Thanks.

[hockey0001]

3rd down runs? How many draw plays did that include?

And why are you looking at this season? That was never even the argument. Priest Holmes, since going to KC, has been the best RB in the game near the goal line.

So now you're gonna argue about a specific type of run play? How about who's better running a counter to the left when the quarterback is in the shotgun.

[TJ.Wells]

How many draw plays did Priest's include? Oh and by the way, when the Hawks run draw plays on 3rd and long, 85% of the time they give it to Mo Morris or Mack Strong.

rofl, you told me to look at ESPN splits, buddy. there's only splits listed for 2005 - the rest give a page not found homework. proof that you're pulling stats out of your ass? When I said Shaun was the best at getting into the end zone in the red zone, anyone with "any knowledge" (sound familiar?) would assume that it was referring to the current state of football, not 2 years ago when Priest romped all over the place and was healthy. P.S. - Since going to KC would include this year - since that's the season at hand, I'd say it's pretty safe to compare stats this year. Thanks.
pwned

[TJ.Wells]

Quite protective of your players Weebs?

[Scott Weber]

Quite protective of your players Weebs?
I'm just shooting down a close-minded argument that continues to change. If I honestly believed that he was right, I would argue the other side. Shit, last week I defended A-Rod winning the MVP to death, even though I hate NY and A-Rod and love Boston and Ortiz.

[still_life]

How many draw plays did Priest's include? Oh and by the way, when the Hawks run draw plays on 3rd and long, 85% of the time they give it to Mo Morris or Mack Strong.
rofl, you told me to look at ESPN splits, buddy. there's only splits listed for 2005 - the rest give a page not found homework. proof that you're pulling stats out of your ass? When I said Shaun was the best at getting into the end zone in the red zone, anyone with "any knowledge" (sound familiar?) would assume that it was referring to the current state of football, not 2 years ago when Priest romped all over the place and was healthy. P.S. - Since going to KC would include this year - since that's the season at hand, I'd say it's pretty safe to compare stats this year. Thanks.

I must be dealing with a retarded one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2002
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2004

Alexander can't compare, statistically and just watching them run.

If you want to ignore Priest, LT's even better at getting to the endzone. He only did it in what, 18 straight games?

[TJ.Wells]

I'm just shooting down a close-minded argument that continues to change. If I honestly believed that he was right, I would argue the other side. Shit, last week I defended A-Rod winning the MVP to death, even though I hate NY and A-Rod and love Boston and Ortiz.
They should put that clip of Jeremy Shockey next to the definition of "priceless" in the dictionary.

[hockey0001]

I must be dealing with a retarded one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2002
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2004

Alexander can't compare, statistically and just watching them run.

If you want to ignore Priest, LT's even better at getting to the endzone. He only did it in what, 18 straight games?

What do those numbers have to do with the mvp of this year? So Priest Holmes was better those years, who cares, that doesnt affect this year.

[still_life]

What do those numbers have to do with the mvp of this year? So Priest Holmes was better those years, who cares, that doesnt affect this year.

It wasn't about MVP, it was about who's better at scoring near the goal line.

And I think the thread I just made should settle who the real best RB in the league is this year.

[Scott Weber]

I must be dealing with a retarded one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2002
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2004

Alexander can't compare, statistically and just watching them run.

If you want to ignore Priest, LT's even better at getting to the endzone. He only did it in what, 18 straight games?
Those pages definitely gave me page not found when I clicked on the seperate years before.

wtf? go to this page: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=2150 - and use the drop bar for the years to go to the other years. it doesn't work....

edit: wtf, now it works when i directly link it. that is so weird. oh well.

[Scott Weber]

I must be dealing with a retarded one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2002
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1306&year=2004

Alexander can't compare, statistically and just watching them run.

If you want to ignore Priest, LT's even better at getting to the endzone. He only did it in what, 18 straight games?
by the way, even in Priest's best year at getting into the end zone in the red zone, his carries/TD ratio doesn't come anywhere CLOSE to Shaun's this year of 2.25.

[Adam We]

Chad Johnson is nasty son.

[still_life]

by the way, even in Priest's best year at getting into the end zone in the red zone, his carries/TD ratio doesn't come anywhere CLOSE to Shaun's this year of 2.25.

What? He had 15 TDs on 30 carries in 2002, 22 TDs on 44 carries in 2003, and 10 TDs on 27 carries in 04. So he was getting in on every other attempt in 02-03.

[Scott Weber]

What? He had 15 TDs on 30 carries in 2002, 22 TDs on 44 carries in 2003, and 10 TDs on 27 carries in 04. So he was getting in on every other attempt in 02-03.
are you reading different splits than I am? 2003, Opponents 19-1 yrd line, 76 attempts, 25 TDs. Maybe I'm missing something...don't think I am

edit: you're reading inside the 10, not inside the 20. 20 is where the red zone starts. if you're going by that, then Shaun has 13 TDs in 19 carries, haha

[Spicoli hey bud]

are you reading different splits than I am? 2003, Opponents 19-1 yrd line, 76 attempts, 25 TDs. Maybe I'm missing something...don't think I am

edit: you're reading inside the 10, not inside the 20. 20 is where the red zone starts.
HOLY SHIT YOUR FUCKING SIG IS AMAZING

where can I find that?

[still_life]

I don't even remember arguing red zone. I've been saying near the endzone, or goal line (10-1) all the time. That's when guys are going to score often, not from 15 yards out.

[weezer182]

What? He had 15 TDs on 30 carries in 2002, 22 TDs on 44 carries in 2003, and 10 TDs on 27 carries in 04. So he was getting in on every other attempt in 02-03.obviously you two arent going to agree on who is better so there is no need to keep posting stats. there is nothing he can say to make you agree with him and vice versa................ although it is pretty amusing to read haha

[Spicoli hey bud]

obviously you two arent going to agree on who is better so there is no need to keep posting stats. there is nothing he can say to make you agree with him and vice versa................ although it is pretty amusing to read haha
this is the whole point of the sports forum

[weezer182]

this is the whole point of the sports forum yea but its gone on too long. the same argument is in three different threads.

[Scott Weber]

I don't even remember arguing red zone. I've been saying near the endzone, or goal line (10-1) all the time. That's when guys are going to score often, not from 15 yards out.
unless you're Shaun. Haha. We were talking red zone, but if you're going to divert from that, look no further than 10-1....like I posted, Shaun has 13 TDs in 19 carries. Priest can't top that.

[yeat182]

And Holmes is still the better back near the goal line. Look it up. espn.com game splits.
Pass plays over 20 yards, or passes thrown over 20 yards? There's a big difference. I've seen him pick up almost 30 yards on a dinky little screen pass to Heath Evans against the Saints. There's also a 45 yard TD to Daniel Graham against Atlanta and Indy (same exact play) where it's just a little dump and Graham does all the work. That's not nearly the same as putting the ball in the air more than 20 yards down the field. I've seen Brady throw some of those this year, and he's been really inaccurate.

i believe, and i heard the stat from Jaws on ESPN, that it is passes thrown over 20 yards, but i'm not certain. they've defenitely had some big gains on screens so it may not be, but i'm not positive. But Brady has actually thrown alot of deep balls this year, and i'd have to say he's been pretty acurate, at least as much as any other QB.

[YouMadeTheScene]

ok biased maybe but there is someone who is completly left off the list here.


TIKI FUCKING BARBER!!!

the Giants without barber this year, his running, his blocking, his catching, his leadership, would be a shit team.

[anishkabob]

my criteria is basically take this player out, and is how does the team do...

so i went with LT. LT is the reason they move on offense.

then i have shaun alexander, plummer (amazingly), and peyton. I could see an argument for Alexander over LT. I take Plummer next because I think without his sudden Manningesqe game management the Broncos wouldn't even make the playoffs in the NFC. I have Manning 4th simply because, despite his great talent, he's also got a great new defense, a great running back, and an amazing group of receivers. Taking nothing away from what he does, but it's very tough to win the MVP when you have an all star team around you.

i agree wholeheartedly.

[still_life]

I'll have to look at the play-by-play for Seattle games. There's a difference if Alexander is getting one carry or two near the goal line. There's no faulting a RB for scoring a 1 yard TD on 1 try or 3, it's the same result.

And after tonight, I still vote Peyton Manning. Another solid performance on primetime TV against a top ranked defense.

[Boring Pop Song]

peyton


EDIT: why don't we just make that the Manning family

[YouMadeTheScene]

Why does Tiki Barber never get any love?

[Scott Weber]

I'll have to look at the play-by-play for Seattle games. There's a difference if Alexander is getting one carry or two near the goal line. There's no faulting a RB for scoring a 1 yard TD on 1 try or 3, it's the same result.
And after tonight, I still vote Peyton Manning. Another solid performance on primetime TV against a top ranked defense.
:shake:
you'll never give up, will you? Never admit one mistake or anything? Oh well. Peyton was awesome tonight. The Colts are definitely the real deal this year.

[Scott Weber]

Why does Tiki Barber never get any love?
because he's overshadowed by several better running backs in both leagues.

[YouMadeTheScene]

because he's overshadowed by several better running backs in both leagues.

I reallllly disagree with that. He has been as consistent as anyone the past couple years and is one of those guys that does everything great including blocking. Not to mention he is a huge team leader. To say several better running backs is really a push

[Scott Weber]

I reallllly disagree with that. He has been as consistent as anyone the past couple years and is one of those guys that does everything great including blocking. Not to mention he is a huge team leader. To say several better running backs is really a push
1. Ladanian Tomlinson.
2. Shaun Alexander.
3. Edgerrin James.

Barber is having a huge past couple of years, but I don't find him to be in the same league as these guys. (Last year especially). Him and Edgerrin are pretty darn close though. He's a double threat, which is always tough.

[still_life]

Anyone catch the stat about most 5-9 yard runs this season? Edge was blowing everyone away there. Think about that...

[still_life]

2-14-ATL14 (3:59) S.Alexander left guard for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
2-7-ARI25 (4:30) S.Alexander left end for 25 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-1-ARI1 (11:55) S.Alexander left tackle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
1-1-ARI1 (11:25) S.Alexander left tackle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
3-1-ARI1 (15:00) S.Alexander left tackle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
2-3-WAS3 (4:14) S.Alexander right end for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-1-STL1 (9:38) S.Alexander left end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
2-3-STL18 (6:22) S.Alexander left tackle for 18 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-4-HOU4 (8:16) S.Alexander right tackle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-5-HOU5 (1:11) S.Alexander right tackle for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-1-HOU1 (8:26) S.Alexander left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
2-23-HOU23 (13:25) S.Alexander right end for 23 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-SEA12 (14:55) S.Alexander right tackle for 88 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-ARI14 (5:24) S.Alexander up the middle for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-6-STL6 (8:51) S.Alexander left guard for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
2-2-STL4 (9:24) S.Alexander left tackle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-1-STL17 (1:18) S.Alexander left end for 17 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-8-SF8 (13:15) S.Alexander left guard for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-1-SF1 (3:55) S.Alexander left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
4-1-NYG4 (4:44) S.Alexander left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

20 TDs, 14 from the left side. It was basically only the Texans and Cardinals where he had big TD runs not behind Hutch and Jones. And there were quite a few drives where he had one carry from the one yard line and that was it.

[Scott Weber]

sigh. here we go again. dude, i owned you with the red zone argument w/ Priest vs. Shaun. i'm not even going to talk about this right now.

6.8 YPC (right) vs. 4.7 YPC (left). Hardly the "dominance" of one side you made it out to be. That's all I have to say.

[still_life]

When did you ever own anything? I never argued about the redzone, I said goal line. That's 10-1 yard line. Priest's 2003 season is still the benchmark for it.

6.8 from right? Hmm, how much impact do you think an 88 yard run would have on that? A whole yard perhaps? And not to mention he has 70 carries to the right, 101 to the left.

[Scott Weber]

When did you ever own anything? I never argued about the redzone, I said goal line. That's 10-1 yard line. Priest's 2003 season is still the benchmark for it.

6.8 from right? Hmm, how much impact do you think an 88 yard run would have on that? A whole yard perhaps? And not to mention he has 70 carries to the right, 101 to the left.
Jesus christ. Have you ignored everything I've said? Priest's ratio was 1 TD per 2 carries in 2003 inside the 10. Shaun's this year is 13 TDs in 19 carries. You do the fucking math. I'm done slamming that down your throat. At this point in time, there is nobody better than Shaun in the red zone - or the goal line - at getting the ball in the end zone.

What, so 88 yard runs don't count? I'm sick of your excuses to every argument.

[still_life]

Priest had 44 carries inside the 10 that year. And he wasn't getting 1st and goal at the 1 carries as much as Alexander. Just look at the first Arizona game, simple stat padding.

I never said 88 yard runs don't count, but that's one play on a season. That's what you call an outlier in statistics. It makes the average more impressive because it's a huge chunk of yards coming on one play.