Bands You'd Liked to Have Seen in "March Mayhem"

[speakhandsforme]

Just for fun, even though no bands mentioned in this thread would have stood any kind of chance.

What are some well-respected bands that you felt got the shaft?

I kind of expected American Football, Neutral Milk Hotel, Trophy Scars, Further Seems Forever, and maybe The Snake The Cross The Crown to be of some notoriety.

[anthonydarko]

Minus the Bear would've been a good one.

[pblest]

i didn't want neutral milk hotel or american football in this thing because they'd probably go against some douchey pop band and lose hard because everyone in the thread would be like "NEUTRAL MILK HOTEL LOLZ I DONT EVEN DRINK MILK????"

[x togepi x]

i am surprised no post rock bands made the list since almost everyone on this site has one post rock band they claim to love.

[pblest]

every band i listen to has at least three unnecessary exclamation points.

[speakhandsforme]

The Beatles, The Killers, and Modest Mouse should have been included

Those are all ones I thought of too. I imagine they were going for a more modern pool, since all the community's classic bands went unmentioned.

[lenard27]

Modest Mouse, Minus the Bear, Explosions in the Sky, Russian Circles (although I think they wouldn't have a chance...not popular enough)

They could have easily taken the place of a lot of the bands (Good Charlotte) and would have actually have had a shot to win.

[pblest]

lifetime definitely should have been in now that i think about it. the ergs too.

[speakhandsforme]

Modest Mouse, Minus the Bear, Explosions in the Sky, Russian Circles (although I think they wouldn't have a chance...not popular enough)

They could have easily taken the place of a lot of the bands (Good Charlotte) and would have actually have had a shot to win.

Explosions did make the cut, thankfully.

[lenard27]

Explosions did make the cut, thankfully.
Who were they matched up against? I don't remember voting for them, although I easily could have and not remember it.

[SSLYBY]

Dillinger Four or Bouncing Souls

[theguy77]

no thanks. i dont want to see any more of my favorite artsits get crushed by shitty scene bands. even the shitty scene bands i like lose to the shitty scene bands i dont like.

[x togepi x]

no thanks. i dont want to see any more of my favorite artsits get crushed by shitty scene bands. even the shitty scene bands i like lose to the shitty scene bands i dont like.

this was seriously one of the worst ideas this site has had.

"hey, let's compare a bunch of bands that are in no way similar to each other and let a bunch of musically handicapped people pick the terrible flash in the pan ones to win".

[SSLYBY]

this was seriously one of the worst ideas this site has had.

"hey, let's compare a bunch of bands that are in no way similar to each other and let a bunch of musically handicapped people pick the terrible flash in the pan ones to win".

It's obvious this site has more people that would take the Scene bands over the older bands/more influential bands.

The contest wasn't over who was the better band/most influential, it was over which bands people of ap.net liked better.

[x togepi x]

It's obvious this site has more people that would take the Scene bands over the older bands/more influential bands.

The contest wasn't over who was the better band/most influential, it was over which bands people of ap.net liked better.

Obviously, but most of these comparisons are stupid. Like there's no way I would ever sit there and ponder to myself whether At The Drive-in is better than Anberlin because they're completely different bands with completely different outlooks on how to play music. Whoever running this should have just stuck with scene bands in this case.

[SSLYBY]

Obviously, but most of these comparisons are stupid. Like there's no way I would ever sit there and ponder to myself whether At The Drive-in is better than Anberlin because they're completely different bands with completely different outlooks on how to play music. Whoever running this should have just stuck with scene bands in this case.


Yea, I was going to say they should've just stuck with bands in the scene. There was way to many match-ups anyway.

[SSLYBY]

March Mayhem turned into March, April, and possibly May Mayhem.


Also I'm would've liked to see AVA and +44; would've been interesting to see them matched up

[speakhandsforme]

As far as restricting the contest to "scene" bands:

It'd be hard knowing where to draw the line: for instance, Brand New isn't particularly a "scene band" (as they have no weight in checkboard slipper circles) but will be preferred over any other current bands (other than Blink, who are now relevant again). But, those who truly appreciate Brand New past their promotion on this site, may vote against them when set against more influential bands such as ATDI.

[x togepi x]

Brand New is totally a scene band. When they drop a new album, they will share the same resurgence in relevance that blink is having now. the only reason they'd hold no weight currently is because they haven't put anything out since '06.

[SSLYBY]

As far as restricting the contest to "scene" bands:

It'd be hard knowing where to draw the line: for instance, Brand New isn't particularly a "scene band" (as they have no weight in checkboard slipper circles) but will be preferred over any other current bands (other than Blink, who are now relevant again). But, those who truly appreciate Brand New past their promotion on this site, may vote against them when set against more influential bands such as ATDI.


How could you not call brand new a scene band???

[speakhandsforme]

How could you not call brand new a scene band???

They don't particularly appeal to scenesters, they're only applicable to THE AP.net scene, they are musically competent, they have intelligent lyrics, they alienate mainstream fans with every progression in their music. etc.

EDIT: I don't understand how TDAGARIM could be labeled "scene."

[SSLYBY]

70x7 is basically the definition of scene. They helped make the Scene. "Scene" isn't just these shitty ass bands that wear neon and have no talent.

[speakhandsforme]

70x7 is basically the definition of scene. They helped make the Scene. "Scene" isn't just these shitty ass bands that wear neon and have no talent.

77x7 and that was 8 years ago.

And I believe there to be a difference between helping set a base for a scene and adhering to its subsequent standards, which they did not. They didn't go on to produce spiteful pop-punk but instead separated themselves from bands such as TBS by creating mature and darker music. Just my opinion.

[theguy77]

this was seriously one of the worst ideas this site has had.

"hey, let's compare a bunch of bands that are in no way similar to each other and let a bunch of musically handicapped people pick the terrible flash in the pan ones to win".

exactly man ive been openly cynical about it from the get-go. i mean and i might not even have such a huge problem with it if it wasnt cluttering up the whole first page of the fucking music forum. put it in the poll forum or something, seriously.

[x togepi x]

exactly man ive been openly cynical about it from the get-go. i mean and i might not even have such a huge problem with it if it wasnt cluttering up the whole first page of the fucking music forum. put it in the poll forum or something, seriously.

yes, most of them are just polls anyway. only two or three posters per thread actually justify their decisions, most of them are inane "I have to pick (band)".

[x togepi x]

77x7 and that was 8 years ago.

And I believe there to be a difference between helping set a base for a scene and adhering to its subsequent standards, which they did not. They didn't go on to produce spiteful pop-punk but instead separated themselves from bands such as TBS by creating mature and darker music. Just my opinion.

yes but this mature and darker music has been embraced by scenesters and made to seem more experimental/indie than it really is. that's why when the new album drops, i think they'll gain their scene relevancy back.

[theguy77]

yes, most of them are just polls anyway. only two or three posters per thread actually justify their decisions, most of them are inane "I have to pick (band)".

exactly, although its probably more cordial that way considering i havent liked a lot of people's justifications and have started multiple arguments that way hahaha. but hell thats a lot more entertaining even when it leads to hostility. you would agree with this more than anyone i'd imagine :-d

yes but this mature and darker music has been embraced by scenesters and made to seem more experimental/indie than it really is. that's why when the new album drops, i think they'll gain their scene relevancy back.

yeah, and that sucks for brand new (i say this knowing that i was a scenester when i embraced TDAG and probably still am without knowing), i mean even making a competent noise-rock record couldnt separate them from that shitty scene. you know its like how are they ever going to pull themselves out of that pigeon hole and into the REAL music world? its clear they want more than anything to get out, and i guess you could say they're halfway there at this point but they're still in a sort of limbo where they still have a lot of the same group of gimmicky kids attached to them.

[Chris Fallon]

Anton picked the bands at random, and all of them were pitted against each other -- AT RANDOM. It's pure coincidence to see a popular favorite here (by that I mean, majority) go up against a band with an earnest reputation.

How come every time a fun idea that is literally just to get people talking about music, people have to bitch, moan and criticize every goddamn judgment or choice someone else makes? This is not a free-for-all "this band is the greatest band in history" contest -- it's for fun, to tally our members' votes and see who they like most as a band. How is that a bad idea?

We all have our own judgments on who should be number one. But to sit there in your chair, pick on others and call everybody who likes a band you don't like out simply because the choice is "boring" or "trendy" or "mainstream" -- that is ignorant, stupid and brash. There's no need for condescension or elitism here. I really get mad seeing people badmouth the votes of others when a band they admire is losing -- yes, sometimes we get mad when a band we enjoy loses to a band we do not find anything great in... but so what? This isn't a serious competition -- it is fun. You all remember fun, right?

Sorry we're all unable to see eye to eye on things like this. I really wish some of you would learn that not everything on AP.net is supposed to be taken to dramatically serious and dire places -- it's just pointless to bicker, no matter what. If you don't like it, don't join in. But please, don't bitch about every little feature we include here. Gets old.

*Note: this is not in regards to OP -- I like this thread idea.

[Chris Fallon]

exactly man ive been openly cynical about it from the get-go. i mean and i might not even have such a huge problem with it if it wasnt cluttering up the whole first page of the fucking music forum. put it in the poll forum or something, seriously.
Sigh... Anton explained this a while ago: for whatever reason, when we put it in the poll forum, non-members can vote as many times as they want. Jason would fix it if he could, but it ties in with an old coding problem with his original design (it'd take forever to find/fix it). So, in order to give the bands a fair members-only advantage (since that is the entire point here), we had to move it here. Sorry it gets in your guys' way, but there are ways to get by that irritation: ignore the threads or filter them out. The end.

[kazuma_ootaro28]

Animal Collective, just to see Pitchfork tell their hipster-demographic readers to bum rush AP.net's registration page just to vote for the "Album of the Decade band." This could also apply to Arcade Fire.

Seriously, there could have been other bands to replace the irrelevant ones imo (The Offspring, Plain White T's). Minus the Bear, Days Away, Pavement, The Flaming Lips, and Punchline come to mind. I would've also loved to see Elliott Smith and Kevin Devine in there too.

[djkilo]

i didn't want neutral milk hotel or american football in this thing because they'd probably go against some douchey pop band and lose hard because everyone in the thread would be like "NEUTRAL MILK HOTEL LOLZ I DONT EVEN DRINK MILK????"


lol

[djkilo]

this was seriously one of the worst ideas this site has had.

"hey, let's compare a bunch of bands that are in no way similar to each other and let a bunch of musically handicapped people pick the terrible flash in the pan ones to win".

ditto.

[speakhandsforme]

yes but this mature and darker music has been embraced by scenesters and made to seem more experimental/indie than it really is. that's why when the new album drops, i think they'll gain their scene relevancy back.

Maybe we just have different ideas of scenesters. I, for one, don't see the application of eye liner or reckless cutting of hair being set to Degausser. Even following Deja, the vast majority of Brand New fans that I knew of were more mature, musically-informed listener than the usual suspects.

[Anton Djamoos]

this was seriously one of the worst ideas this site has had.

"hey, let's compare a bunch of bands that are in no way similar to each other and let a bunch of musically handicapped people pick the terrible flash in the pan ones to win".
Oh god shut UP.

This is one thing I cannot understand at all, how people are complaining that bands shouldn't be lumped together because they don't make similar music. This entire thing is for determining which band is your favorite. Miley Cyrus vs. Led Zeppelin. Not similar, but I can pick which band is my favorite of the two. Thus, every single band that has ever existed ever ever ever can be compared and your entire stupid fucking argument is rendered completely void.

Just because you think that you have this deity-like musical preference does not make you better than another person. I'd rather have a million of the people voting Good Charlotte over Jimmy Eat World over someone who is so close-minded that they have to constantly bitch and complain about a poll thing that we're doing for fun. If it's that big of a deal, I can do one of two things for you if you'd really like. I'll a) ban you from each of the threads so you don't get tempted to go in there and post or b) ban you from the entire site until the contest has run its course if you really want. The bitching is senseless and you're getting no where with it. If you're going to criticize, at least have something worthwhile to say.

[Anton Djamoos]

exactly man ive been openly cynical about it from the get-go. i mean and i might not even have such a huge problem with it if it wasnt cluttering up the whole first page of the fucking music forum. put it in the poll forum or something, seriously.
What the hell is the big deal? It's the music forum and it's generating discussion about bands. You seem to be enjoying that Radiohead one, leading the pack with 37 posts.

[kwsqd]

What the hell is the big deal? It's the music forum and it's generating discussion about bands. You seem to be enjoying that Radiohead one, leading the pack with 37 posts.
Anton'd

[speakhandsforme]

I'm still a big fan of the contest.

What I think would be a great idea for next year, and hear me out, would be to have a bracket full of the bands of AP members (obscure, unsigned or small label bands), maybe those who are included on the AP compilation.

Anyways, the winning band gets like a promotion spot on the front page or something.

I think that'd be grand.

[Anton Djamoos]

I'm still a big fan of the contest.

What I think would be a great idea for next year, and hear me out, would be to have a bracket full of the bands of AP members (obscure, unsigned or small label bands), maybe those who are included on the AP compilation.

Anyways, the winning band gets like a promotion spot on the front page or something.

I think that'd be grand.
I have no qualm with your thread and, like you said, the bands that you listed wouldn't win. It's supposed to be the majority of the site's favorite bands and, unfortunately, bands like Neutral Milk Hotel aren't going to make the cut whereas bands like Hawthorne Heights will.

[x togepi x]

Oh god shut UP.

This is one thing I cannot understand at all, how people are complaining that bands shouldn't be lumped together because they don't make similar music. This entire thing is for determining which band is your favorite. Miley Cyrus vs. Led Zeppelin. Not similar, but I can pick which band is my favorite of the two. Thus, every single band that has ever existed ever ever ever can be compared and your entire stupid fucking argument is rendered completely void.

Just because you think that you have this deity-like musical preference does not make you better than another person. I'd rather have a million of the people voting Good Charlotte over Jimmy Eat World over someone who is so close-minded that they have to constantly bitch and complain about a poll thing that we're doing for fun. If it's that big of a deal, I can do one of two things for you if you'd really like. I'll a) ban you from each of the threads so you don't get tempted to go in there and post or b) ban you from the entire site until the contest has run its course if you really want. The bitching is senseless and you're getting no where with it. If you're going to criticize, at least have something worthwhile to say.

Wow, you're amazingly open minded. So open minded that you're tolerant of other people's opinion of the "contest" or whatever you want to call it. That's what I love about people like you on AP.net, you guys preach open mindedness and tolerance until someone bashes something you're particularly into and then you start whining like any other so-called elitist. So what if I think your "fun" is stupid? Truly open mindedness would entail you not saying anything, but like most people here, you're just pushing your various subjective tastes onto everyone else under the veil of tolerance.

It's also funny that you're claiming I "don't have anything worthwhile to say" when you're complaining about my complaints on posts that if a new person made them, you guys would move them to the polls forum. That's what these are, glorified polls with hardly any musical discussion. I provide that in a thread about the contest and you threaten to ban me. How professional and open minded of you! At least this time I get banned for something legit, unlike the time you guys banned me for homophobia when i was defending homosexuals in the same thread.

Here's the problem with your analysis of my argument: Your threads involve you telling people to justify their decisions. That is completely nonsensical. It's not "elitist" or "having a god like conception of my musical taste" to say you can't compare Anberlin and At the Drive-in. It's quite the opposite, because i'm admitting that both bands have places in the musical canon. ATDI did a bunch of things, Anberlin did a bunch of other things. They never toured together. They appealed to different scenes. They were both successful. yeah, I think Anberlin is bland pop rock. so? they were successful at writing that kind of music and have a place in musical history. that's no different than someone saying ATDI was pretentious noise bullshit. I'm admitting the value in essentially most music with my perspective, how exactly is that "elitist"?

It makes absolutely no sense to compare the two for those reasons. it takes music, rips it of its historical context, and places it in an inane poll. So while you can compare something like Miley Cyrus and Led Zepplin in some shallow way "LOL MILEY CYRUS SUCKS", you can't possibly expect any rational, logical comparision between the two on any other level, and that's what you're seeing in most of those threads.

and even if you can, you're mixing burdens between the subjective and the objective when you ask for discussion about said comparisions but then complain when people like me state our opinions about the entire project. Which is it? Is it a people stating their opinion on their favorite band (which means my "no favorite band because you can't compare music like that" stance is legit) or something else?

[theguy77]

What the hell is the big deal? It's the music forum and it's generating discussion about bands. You seem to be enjoying that Radiohead one, leading the pack with 37 posts.

its the only discussion to be had right now, which is sad considering under no other circumstance would i feel the need to express why i think radiohead is better than mayday parade. theres not much you can say in a thread like that without stating the obvious and/or coming across as an elitist prick. it might be fun for a bunch of users from elsewhere on AP but as a music forum regular of 2 years i can speak for a lot of people when i say its really taking away from a lot of the quality discussion that usually goes on in here because most of the key regulars are turned off by these polls. but apart from all that, i have no expectation that you will take my criticism seriously nor do i hold anything against staff for making these polls. togepi expressed the fact that he generally dislikes the polls, i agreed with him, it wasnt meant to be disrespectful to you or to the site as a whole, its just something that's going on right now that we're not huge fans of. i do partake in it, yes, because its the main thing thats going on in here, and this is where i go for entertainment.

[x togepi x]

Anton picked the bands at random, and all of them were pitted against each other -- AT RANDOM. It's pure coincidence to see a popular favorite here (by that I mean, majority) go up against a band with an earnest reputation.

How come every time a fun idea that is literally just to get people talking about music, people have to bitch, moan and criticize every goddamn judgment or choice someone else makes? This is not a free-for-all "this band is the greatest band in history" contest -- it's for fun, to tally our members' votes and see who they like most as a band. How is that a bad idea?

We all have our own judgments on who should be number one. But to sit there in your chair, pick on others and call everybody who likes a band you don't like out simply because the choice is "boring" or "trendy" or "mainstream" -- that is ignorant, stupid and brash. There's no need for condescension or elitism here. I really get mad seeing people badmouth the votes of others when a band they admire is losing -- yes, sometimes we get mad when a band we enjoy loses to a band we do not find anything great in... but so what? This isn't a serious competition -- it is fun. You all remember fun, right?

Sorry we're all unable to see eye to eye on things like this. I really wish some of you would learn that not everything on AP.net is supposed to be taken to dramatically serious and dire places -- it's just pointless to bicker, no matter what. If you don't like it, don't join in. But please, don't bitch about every little feature we include here. Gets old.

*Note: this is not in regards to OP -- I like this thread idea.

"elitism" is fun. telling people their boring tastes are in fact boring is fun. if you're open minded and all about fun, why are you up in arms about this? I don't see you guys complaining when someone calls us elitists but you're complaining when we call them trendy and boring? Could you be anymore transparent? Shit goes both ways. This "tolerance" you're speaking of is just elitism/close mindedness dressed in neon scenester shirts.

[Chris Fallon]

Do Anberlin and At the Drive In both play music? Oh, what's that? They do?

And do they play rock music (in the most general sense of the term)? Why, yes! Again, they do!

Now, do they have different styles of play? Certainly. I listen to both, enjoy both and can compare them no matter what style they play.

Saying a band cannot face this band due to conflict of style defeats the entire point of competition. That's like telling me Wake Forest can't play Appalachian State in the NCAA basketball tournament -- they may play the game differently, but at the end of the day, they are both doing the same thing with different results for the same overall reason.

I just don't see how this all came out to be some philosophical reason about what is right and wrong in musical theory. It's a music website intended for the purpose of discussion -- you try coming up with a bunch of features, working your ass off to get them up (like Anton has been doing), and then pleasing everyone with an ego so huge, you don't have the words to stroke it.

[Chris Fallon]

"elitism" is fun. telling people their boring tastes are in fact boring is fun. if you're open minded and all about fun, why are you up in arms about this? I don't see you guys complaining when someone calls us elitists but you're complaining when we call them trendy and boring? Could you be anymore transparent? Shit goes both ways. This "tolerance" you're speaking of is just elitism/close mindedness dressed in neon scenester shirts.

Normally, I don't have an issue with you. However, you think you are so much smarter than everyone and are always looking for so much more to any topic than what is contained -- this is not politics, this is not religion, it's a discussion about music. What's the problem? Why can't I get up in arms about it when as a staff member of the site, I continually read over members trying to knock everything we do?

If you find chastising others for their likes/dislikes enjoyable, by all means, that is your prerogative. I call people out on their elitism, their judgment-making, anything I find is arrogant or unjust. Who are you, of all people, to tell me or any other member here what's wrong/right? If you want to be respectful and question someone, fine -- but it's the means in which you do so that has me "up in arms". So pardon me for giving a shit about the integrity of the site's hard work and prioritizing. I value what my fellow staff members do, and I find the common opinion by users such as yourself is generally negative enough to allow me to say something. No moments of grandeur or some sort of self-gratification on my part -- I just tend to speak up to those who piss me off.

Okay, now tell me how I'm less than you, etc.

[x togepi x]

Do Anberlin and At the Drive In both play music? Oh, what's that? They do?

And do they play rock music (in the most general sense of the term)? Why, yes! Again, they do!

Now, do they have different styles of play? Certainly. I listen to both, enjoy both and can compare them no matter what style they play.

Yeah dude, in the most shallow way possible you can compare the two. But stylistically, they don't share enough similarities to do this. Success to At The Drive-in was different than success to Anberlin. If ATDI released a poppy album, they'd been trashed. if Anberlin went more noisy, the same thing goes.

Saying a band cannot face this band due to conflict of style defeats the entire point of competition. That's like telling me Wake Forest can't play Appalachian State in the NCAA basketball tournament -- they may play the game differently, but at the end of the day, they are both doing the same thing with different results for the same overall reason.

This analogy doesn't work. When two basketball teams play each other, they have the same goal: to score more points than the other team. That isn't the case with two bands with completely different outlooks on music. Art isn't a competition, nor should it be.

I just don't see how this all came out to be some philosophical reason about what is right and wrong in musical theory. It's a music website intended for the purpose of discussion -- you try coming up with a bunch of features, working your ass off to get them up (like Anton has been doing), and then pleasing everyone with an ego so huge, you don't have the words to stroke it.

because some of us care about that on a deeper level?

I get coming up with features. 9 times out of 10, I think they work (or at least i'm neutral on them). On a good day, the musical discussion found on this site trumps most, but this specific feature doesn't work in that case since the vast majority of the posts are "i like blah blah so i voted for them." I don't see the point in making a feature public if you're not going to admit that criticism of it exists.

[x togepi x]

Normally, I don't have an issue with you. However, you think you are so much smarter than everyone and are always looking for so much more to any topic than what is contained -- this is not politics, this is not religion, it's a discussion about music. What's the problem? Why can't I get up in arms about it when as a staff member of the site, I continually read over members trying to knock everything we do?

This is asinine. There's way more to any topic than you're giving credit for. Are you seriously telling me that a discussion of music is somehow less deep than religion/politics? Come on...you can go to Barnes and Nobel and pick up shit like "The Philosophy of Bruce Springsteen" or get on amazon and find books on how noise music fits into the Neo-Marxist dialectic. You can go as in depth as you want with almost any subject.

I don't think it would hurt anyone, and i truly mean anyone with an account on this site, to think more about their opinions/taste/understanding of music. of course, to actually generate discussion one often must be harsh to get any sort of response. I've said this a million times, even in response to you.

I get that it takes work to do what you guys do, the post above already points out that on a good day the discussion found here trumps most places, but just because you "do work" doesn't mean that every single thing you do is going to end up to be considered good by every single person here. A lot of people like this feature? Cool. I don't. There's my reasons why, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I think other stuff does. it's just like my band. i work in it, but i don't go out there expecting that every single person in the audience is going to think that the songs we wrote are good or that we played a decent set. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[theguy77]

I get coming up with features. 9 times out of 10, I think they work (or at least i'm neutral on them). On a good day, the musical discussion found on this site trumps most, but this specific feature doesn't work in that case since the vast majority of the posts are "i like blah blah so i voted for them."

this is essentially what i was going to say. also, and i know its done at random, but when comparing two incredibly dissimilar bands, the discussion that goes on tends to be pretty predictable and nonsubstantial, considering people have very obvious reasons for liking one more than another, you know?

say you compare a pop band to a math-rock band. person A says "i like pop band because they're catchy and they make me happy." person B says "i like math-rock band because they're technically brilliant." person B says to person A, "but their music is so simple and cliche!" person A says to person B, "i cant get into them, there's nothing really catchy about them." all this boils down to is person A and person B look at music entirely differently and are simply not compatible to discuss music since they disagree fundamentally on what makes music valuable. it makes a lot more sense when people look at music in a similar way and think one similar band does it better than the other, because then discussion happens on the same wavelength and their justifications hold much more weight and are held in higher consideration. its also more fun as you have to dig deeper than the obvious and really pick apart the music/lyrics/whatever of both bands in order to justify your reasoning.

i dont mean to bitch so much, im just expressing with a bit more verbosity the issues i have with it, since i was asked why it matters. i mean if you have to have these polls, have them, im just one person who isnt a huge fan but my opinion on these poll threads isnt any more important than that of the other users who enjoy them.

[Chris Fallon]

I really don't want to run around in circles all day, so here's my final reply. No offense, no beef, this is just a general statement to everyone who reads this.

Yeah dude, in the most shallow way possible you can compare the two. But stylistically, they don't share enough similarities to do this. Success to At The Drive-in was different than success to Anberlin. If ATDI released a poppy album, they'd been trashed. if Anberlin went more noisy, the same thing goes.
Yes, stylistically they are different -- but again, you're looking far too deep into this. If you want to debate art, you have come to the wrong place. This is simply a competition for fun, and while I admire your willingness to discuss art and theory, March Mayhem is a competition designed to pit bands who are loved by the site as a whole at random. We intentionally did that like a real competition, because even if you want to call it unfair, it's difficult to "seed" a band. Honestly, I like both bands here -- sure, they are miles apart from each other, but do they do generally the same thing? Sure. Both have had mainstream hits, received critical praise, earned a rabid fanbase... many of whom are members here, and like them both! I don't know how many Anberlin songs you have heard in your lifetime, but I can tell you that for a pop-based sound, they are heavier than many of their peers.


This analogy doesn't work. When two basketball teams play each other, they have the same goal: to score more points than the other team. That isn't the case with two bands with completely different outlooks on music. Art isn't a competition, nor should it be.
Allow me (and I think it's safe to say I speak for all staff here) to reiterate: this is not about art. I get what you are saying -- I do -- but this is not a 400 level college class. It's a website for a general audience, with a competition designed to start discussion and to (hopefully) give members the opportunity to find a new band that may change their mind if there is ever a similar competition in the future.


because some of us care about that on a deeper level?
Awesome, I'm glad you care so much -- but quit analyzing the shit out of this and just enjoy the shit we bring you. I swear, some of you have to put up a fight, like it's in your bloodstream to pick at this until it bleeds. Do you honestly think we could have a logical debate on theory and evolution in music here? Not to disgrace anyone, but your plea for open-mindedness runs the gamut with about 1/3 of the people registered here. Is that our fault? Not at all. We are catering to a general audience without selling out our own integrity.

I get coming up with features. 9 times out of 10, I think they work (or at least i'm neutral on them). On a good day, the musical discussion found on this site trumps most, but this specific feature doesn't work in that case since the vast majority of the posts are "i like blah blah so i voted for them." I don't see the point in making a feature public if you're not going to admit that criticism of it exists.
Is that my fault? No. That is something you ought to take up with people you have an issue with. I get that you find many people here to be less intelligent, but come on dude, let's be fair here. Not everyone is thinking like you, and you seem unwilling to accept that we create features for everyone -- for fun. If people hate it, it's generally because no one else sees it their way. Don't read the replies if you don't give a shit why so-and-so loves this band over another. If it bugs you so much, don't let it get to you because at the end of it all, what can you do? Complain? No, let it go. I'm only defensive because I think Anton worked hard and people are making this out to be much more than it really is when it's like a college basketball tournament bracket: fun! That is not close-mindedness -- it's inventive and designed to get a community participating in something as a whole.

[Anton Djamoos]

its the only discussion to be had right now, which is sad considering under no other circumstance would i feel the need to express why i think radiohead is better than mayday parade. theres not much you can say in a thread like that without stating the obvious and/or coming across as an elitist prick. it might be fun for a bunch of users from elsewhere on AP but as a music forum regular of 2 years i can speak for a lot of people when i say its really taking away from a lot of the quality discussion that usually goes on in here because most of the key regulars are turned off by these polls. but apart from all that, i have no expectation that you will take my criticism seriously nor do i hold anything against staff for making these polls. togepi expressed the fact that he generally dislikes the polls, i agreed with him, it wasnt meant to be disrespectful to you or to the site as a whole, its just something that's going on right now that we're not huge fans of. i do partake in it, yes, because its the main thing thats going on in here, and this is where i go for entertainment.
If you can find a better way to implement these polls, I'm all ears. I'm not adverse to taking criticism, I'm adverse to taking complaints with no solutions on what would make something better.

By the way, I searched for the term "mayhem" in the music forum to find all the discussion about it where people were complaining about it taking up space in the forums. The only thing I was able to find outside of the March Mayhem official polls was a post from you complaining that the polls would take away attention from your band.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=40157361#post40157 361

So...sorry my stupid polls are taking valuable forum space from Northbrook. Next time I'll try to be more considerate.

[Anton Djamoos]

@x togepi x

You wrote too much for me to respond to while at work so I cannot respond to everything now in fear of getting in trouble for not working. I'll address everything you said tonight and I'm sorry if I was being overly harsh.

[theguy77]

If you can find a better way to implement these polls, I'm all ears. I'm not adverse to taking criticism, I'm adverse to taking complaints with no solutions on what would make something better.

By the way, I searched for the term "mayhem" in the music forum to find all the discussion about it where people were complaining about it taking up space in the forums. The only thing I was able to find outside of the March Mayhem official polls was a post from you complaining that the polls would take away attention from your band.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=40157361#post40157 361

So...sorry my stupid polls are taking valuable forum space from Northbrook. Next time I'll try to be more considerate.

haha, that was a joke, man. c'mon. i dont even think i deserve my own thread, you can ask anyone who posts in there.

and i do have a suggestion of a better way to implement the polls -- instead of randomizing everything, why not separate it into genres and put more thought into who gets matched up against who? AP's favorte pop-punk bands would make a lot more sense cause then you wouldnt have such poor quality, obvious discussion, you know? that way you dont have problems with matching radiohead with mayday parade and instead its like TSL vs. yellowcard where you actually dig deep to figure out what makes one similar band better than another.

believe me when i say im not just trying to be a pessimistic douchebag when i criticize these polls -- even if i still thought they were a pointless gimmick, they'd be a bit more enjoyable and effective that way.

[x togepi x]

I really don't want to run around in circles all day, so here's my final reply. No offense, no beef, this is just a general statement to everyone who reads this.


Yes, stylistically they are different -- but again, you're looking far too deep into this. If you want to debate art, you have come to the wrong place. This is simply a competition for fun, and while I admire your willingness to discuss art and theory, March Mayhem is a competition designed to pit bands who are loved by the site as a whole at random. We intentionally did that like a real competition, because even if you want to call it unfair, it's difficult to "seed" a band. Honestly, I like both bands here -- sure, they are miles apart from each other, but do they do generally the same thing? Sure. Both have had mainstream hits, received critical praise, earned a rabid fanbase... many of whom are members here, and like them both!

and all of this is cool and everything, which is why I said this competition is stupid mainly in this thread instead of the real threads, but I think it's pretty misguided to say "let's do this to have a musical discussion but there are rules to how deep you can go with it." I'm fairly certain people who don't want to go that deep don't have to.


I don't know how many Anberlin songs you have heard in your lifetime, but I can tell you that for a pop-based sound, they are heavier than many of their peers.

I lived with someone who liked them for a year. I've seen them. They're still not all that stylistically similar to At The Drive-in. oh well. i think this is a case where I would say apples to oranges but you want to be like they're still fruit. whatever.


Allow me (and I think it's safe to say I speak for all staff here) to reiterate: this is not about art. I get what you are saying -- I do -- but this is not a 400 level college class. It's a website for a general audience, with a competition designed to start discussion and to (hopefully) give members the opportunity to find a new band that may change their mind if there is ever a similar competition in the future.

Awesome, I'm glad you care so much -- but quit analyzing the shit out of this and just enjoy the shit we bring you. I swear, some of you have to put up a fight, like it's in your bloodstream to pick at this until it bleeds.

like i said before, i don't think it hurts anyone to think about these things in a deeper way. i know when I started to, I started giving a lot of poppier bands another fair shot. It's not like I'm saying "think about art so you'll start thinking say anything sucks and fugazi rules".

some people like analyzing things. it's how people end up being liberal arts majors with no job prospects. i don't see the harm in that at all. if someone just wants to post "i like blah blah blah", good for them. it goes both ways.

Do you honestly think we could have a logical debate on theory and evolution in music here? Not to disgrace anyone, but your plea for open-mindedness runs the gamut with about 1/3 of the people registered here. Is that our fault? Not at all. We are catering to a general audience without selling out our own integrity.

Yeah, I actually do. I don't think the "general public" is so stupid as to not be able to talk about the evolution of music or attempt to talk about theory.

Is that my fault? No. That is something you ought to take up with people you have an issue with. I get that you find many people here to be less intelligent, but come on dude, let's be fair here. Not everyone is thinking like you, and you seem unwilling to accept that we create features for everyone -- for fun. If people hate it, it's generally because no one else sees it their way. Don't read the replies if you don't give a shit why so-and-so loves this band over another. If it bugs you so much, don't let it get to you because at the end of it all, what can you do? Complain? No, let it go. I'm only defensive because I think Anton worked hard and people are making this out to be much more than it really is when it's like a college basketball tournament bracket: fun! That is not close-mindedness -- it's inventive and designed to get a community participating in something as a whole.

I only complained because I thought the whole point of this was to generate musical discussion, since, you know, all the original posts imply that.

[Anton Djamoos]

haha, that was a joke, man. c'mon. i dont even think i deserve my own thread, you can ask anyone who posts in there.

and i do have a suggestion of a better way to implement the polls -- instead of randomizing everything, why not separate it into genres and put more thought into who gets matched up against who? AP's favorte pop-punk bands would make a lot more sense cause then you wouldnt have such poor quality, obvious discussion, you know? that way you dont have problems with matching radiohead with mayday parade and instead its like TSL vs. yellowcard where you actually dig deep to figure out what makes one similar band better than another.

believe me when i say im not just trying to be a pessimistic douchebag when i criticize these polls -- even if i still thought they were a pointless gimmick, they'd be a bit more enjoyable and effective that way.
If you separate it into genres, then you have people complaining the entire time about one band being in the wrong genre. Brand New...are the pop punk? Are they indie? Are they rock? How about Radiohead? Are they experimental? It's pretty much impossible to classify bands into just one lump genre these days and I figured that would cause more outrage than random pairing of bands together. Plus, if we do it by genres, then we have to figure out who AP.net's favorite indie band is, AP.net's favorite pop-punk band is, etc. It wouldn't give a good indication of who the site's favorite overall band is, which is what these polls intend to find out.

[x togepi x]

@x togepi x

You wrote too much for me to respond to while at work so I cannot respond to everything now in fear of getting in trouble for not working. I'll address everything you said tonight and I'm sorry if I was being overly harsh.

haha don't get in trouble that would be a terrible idea. if there's any consolation, i'll probably read it in my night class and not pay attention to my professor. i also just woke up so i was probably harsher than i intended.

[Anton Djamoos]

I only complained because I thought the whole point of this was to generate musical discussion, since, you know, all the original posts imply that.
The original posts say to "Be sure to read other users' cases for each band" because it is for users that are unsure who to pick and because it's obviously going to spur discussion to read.

[theguy77]

If you separate it into genres, then you have people complaining the entire time about one band being in the wrong genre. Brand New...are the pop punk? Are they indie? Are they rock? How about Radiohead? Are they experimental? It's pretty much impossible to classify bands into just one lump genre these days and I figured that would cause more outrage than random pairing of bands together. Plus, if we do it by genres, then we have to figure out who AP.net's favorite indie band is, AP.net's favorite pop-punk band is, etc. It wouldn't give a good indication of who the site's favorite overall band is, which is what these polls intend to find out.

yeah, i guess so... i dont know, i guess my main issue is, although it is meant to generate discussion, the discussion that goes on in those threads is ultimately either a lot less substantial or a lot more hostile than what's normally seen in the music forum, and also i feel rather unrepresented considering most my favorite bands in the contest are losing in the first round to bands that are hyped by users who are less participatory in discussion and more arbitrary in the way they analyze music. but having spelled it out like that i realize its not such a big deal and it is sort of a trivial thing to bitch about, haha.

just out of curiosity how long is this intended to go on? i could see it possibly stretching past the summer.

[Anton Djamoos]

yeah, i guess so... i dont know, i guess my main issue is, although it is meant to generate discussion, the discussion that goes on in those threads is ultimately either a lot less substantial or a lot more hostile than what's normally seen in the music forum, and also i feel rather unrepresented considering most my favorite bands in the contest are losing in the first round to bands that are hyped by users who are less participatory in discussion and more arbitrary in the way they analyze music. but having spelled it out like that i realize its not such a big deal and it is sort of a trivial thing to bitch about, haha.

just out of curiosity how long is this intended to go on? i could see it possibly stretching past the summer.
Should only be another month or so.

[c_rob2700]

I have no idea why people are like "OH MY FUCKING GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE TED LEO IS LOSING TO VALENCIA!!!!" Did you expect them not to? A majority of this site is a young demographic who (for the most part) are ignorant to some of the far better and influential bands. People just need to calm the fuck down and realize it's not really that big of a deal. Jesus, quit bitching about a FUCKING ONLINE POLL THAT HAS NO BEARING ON YOU.

/dumb post

Also, in reagards to this thread. None of those bands would've made it out of the first round. And The Beatles? Come the fuck on

[xJesusFreakx]

I think just about all of the bands I would have liked to see but didn't have been brought up. Really, though, I think the bands picked made a lot of sense. Pretty good range in bands, from Radiohead to Set Your Goals.

Yeah dude, in the most shallow way possible you can compare the two. But stylistically, they don't share enough similarities to do this. Success to At The Drive-in was different than success to Anberlin. If ATDI released a poppy album, they'd been trashed. if Anberlin went more noisy, the same thing goes.

I'm not sure that getting involved in this whole argument is a good idea, but I just have something to say in response to this statement. What's wrong with comparing bands of completely different styles? What you say about those two bands is true, but that just makes that particular poll a thread for discussing those genres and what you like and/or dislike about them. Thus, discussion is still possible.

Really, though... The point of this is to pick out who's AP.net's overall favorite band, out of a variety of popular bands on this site, in a rather fun format inspired by March Madness. Yes, fun. This isn't a science experiment. My only complaint is with bands posting bulletins, like with the Four Year Strong thread, but there's not really any practical way to take care of that. Other than that, I think March Mayhem is a very good, and fun, idea.

[aoftbsten]

Would have loved to see alexisonfire up there. But of course, with my luck they would have been put up against a band like Brand New and been knocked out in the first round.

[x togepi x]

I'm not sure that getting involved in this whole argument is a good idea, but I just have something to say in response to this statement. What's wrong with comparing bands of completely different styles? What you say about those two bands is true, but that just makes that particular poll a thread for discussing those genres and what you like and/or dislike about them. Thus, discussion is still possible.

Really, though... The point of this is to pick out who's AP.net's overall favorite band, out of a variety of popular bands on this site, in a rather fun format inspired by March Madness. Yes, fun. This isn't a science experiment. My only complaint is with bands posting bulletins, like with the Four Year Strong thread, but there's not really any practical way to take care of that. Other than that, I think March Mayhem is a very good, and fun, idea.

The problem I have with comparing bands that are completely different is that it boils down to meaningless statements of personal preference. I mean, you don't see people seriously discussing whether chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla or if apples taste better than oranges. In those cases, you just go "oh okay, you like chocolate better."

I just don't think it is worthwhile to compare completely different bands.

Example: Band A- a pop rock band. Band B- a noise band.

One person could say they're in love with Band A because Band A has great vocal harmonies, which makes Band A better. The problem is, vocal harmonies tend to be irrelevant in noise music, so Band B wouldn't even attempt them. There's really nowhere to go with this. I mean, yeah you can kind of talk about which band is more influential but even then, that's kind of irrelevant because influence is in flux.

I just don't think it's a fair comparison. some bands do some things, other bands do others. it doesn't make sense to say A is better than B when they have different goals. You can say I prefer A over B, and that's cool and everything, but generally personal preference based discussions devolve into "well this is my opinion so i'm not going to say anymore".

[TreyForest]

there are bands that should of been on there but i dont really care because they wouldnt of won a round as this is a scene / pop site and real punk / poppunk bands dont stand a chance against the powerpop

but i dont really care that its here, pretty entertaining reading the arguments on people trying to prove there bands better when it all comes down to what sounds good in your ears

anyways, we all know which band is gonna win the whole thing

[speakhandsforme]

If you can find a better way to implement these polls, I'm all ears. I'm not adverse to taking criticism, I'm adverse to taking complaints with no solutions on what would make something better.

By the way, I searched for the term "mayhem" in the music forum to find all the discussion about it where people were complaining about it taking up space in the forums. The only thing I was able to find outside of the March Mayhem official polls was a post from you complaining that the polls would take away attention from your band.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=40157361#post40157 361

So...sorry my stupid polls are taking valuable forum space from Northbrook. Next time I'll try to be more considerate.

On this topic, and referring to my post a few pages back, I think doing a tournament comprised of AP members' bands would be great for user relations---the community picking the community's best product. The bands wouldn't carry the immediate knowledge and/or bias that the current contest provides but I think it'd be equally entertaining (especially if the winner were to be that of a prominent member or even staff member).

[kazuma_ootaro28]

On this topic, and referring to my post a few pages back, I think doing a tournament comprised of AP members' bands would be great for user relations---the community picking the community's best product. The bands wouldn't carry the immediate knowledge and/or bias that the current contest provides but I think it'd be equally entertaining (especially if the winner were to be that of a prominent member or even staff member).

There would always be what would be the "big wigs" if there was a tournament (The Injured List, National Product, Alldivide).

[x togepi x]

On this topic, and referring to my post a few pages back, I think doing a tournament comprised of AP members' bands would be great for user relations---the community picking the community's best product. The bands wouldn't carry the immediate knowledge and/or bias that the current contest provides but I think it'd be equally entertaining (especially if the winner were to be that of a prominent member or even staff member).

that would be cool but it might turn into a popularity concept based on the member themselves instead of the merit of their band.

[theguy77]

that would be cool but it might turn into a popularity concept based on the member themselves instead of the merit of their band.

truth.

[x togepi x]

truth.

either way, i know my band would lose to whoever they got paired with considering the results of most of these polls. it would be funny to see how bad the slaughter would be though.

[oddwithoutend]

You could make the users anonymous so everyone is unbiased... somehow.

[x togepi x]

You could make the users anonymous so everyone is unbiased... somehow.

maybe, but it's pretty obvious that i'm in my band. but i would be a dick and enter my pretentious joke noise band.


the main problem with that idea is, how do you decide who's band gets in? i mean yeah you could do it at random but i could see a lot of random people coming out of the woodwork to complain their band didn't make it and how "unfair" that is.

[oddwithoutend]

maybe, but it's pretty obvious that i'm in my band. but i would be a dick and enter my pretentious joke noise band.


the main problem with that idea is, how do you decide who's band gets in? i mean yeah you could do it at random but i could see a lot of random people coming out of the woodwork to complain their band didn't make it and how "unfair" that is.

Yeah I never really thought of that. There'd probably be a crazy amount of people trying to get their bands in the contest.

[holyballs]

lifetime should have been in. even though they probably would have gotten beaten by fight fair! or the like.

[x togepi x]

Yeah I never really thought of that. There'd probably be a crazy amount of people trying to get their bands in the contest.

well it'd be a ton of promotion. i wonder how much hits bands get on myspace after they get frontpaged for small band roundup or whatever it's called. I bet it's a ton.

[speakhandsforme]

that would be cool but it might turn into a popularity concept based on the member themselves instead of the merit of their band.

Yeah, maybe so: I personally don't know of any of the member bands (or their respective AP members) but I'm sure more involved members do. To deter bias, I would think that members' names would not be displayed during the actual contest. I just think it'd be, overally, a more informative showing.

[x togepi x]

Yeah, maybe so: I personally don't know of any of the member bands (or their respective AP members) but I'm sure more involved members do. To deter bias, I would think that members' names would not be displayed during the actual contest. I just think it'd be, overally, a more informative showing.

meh, there's still some bands here who people really know. i don't know, no idea is perfect so there's obviously pros to these cons, like some bands getting a ton of new attention.