The Right Lost!

[Art Isn't Safe]

Dobson concedes that the far right has ‘lost’ the culture war. (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/12/dobson-defeated/)

In a farewell address to the staff of Focus on the Family, James Dobson conceded that evangelical conservatives had lost (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5136050/US-religious-Right-concedes-defeat.html) most of the recent so-called “culture war” battles. Attributing the right’s recent failures to the “internet” and the election of Bill Clinton, Dobson said, “Humanly speaking, we can say that we have lost (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017709.php).” He added that the nation is now “absolutely awash in evil (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/has-dobson-thrown-towel-not-quite)“:
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dobson.jpg



"The battles that we fought in the Eighties now, we were victorious in many of those conflicts with the culture, trying to defend righteousness, trying to defend the unborn child, trying to preserve the dignity of the family and the definition of marriage. We fought all those battles and really it was a holding action."




"We made a lot of progress through the Eighties but then we turned into the Nineties and the internet came along and a new president came along and all of that went away and now we are absolutely awash in evil. And we are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say that we have lost all those battles, but God is in control and we are not going to give up now, right?"

[Mercy Medical]

I fucking hate Focus on the Family. What a crock of bullshit.

[Machu505]

Good.

[saysmydoctor]

Someone tell Papa Bear.

[Siren Silently]

Hillarious.

[J.C.]

The Right in this country is pretty screwed in the long term. They need to go back to the drawing board and brainstorm some new wedge issues that might curry favor with the younger generation.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Thank god.


I guess that's what you deserve for being on the wrong side of history.

[AP_Punk]

:devil:

[xshady121]

The Right in this country is pretty screwed in the long term. They need to go back to the drawing board and brainstorm some new wedge issues that might curry favor with the younger generation.

Or they could just adopt a real conservative ideology, and not this bastardization of one they've been practicing since Reagan.

They haven't "lost", they aren't "screwed", but they do need to get away from these stoic, unrelatable folks running the movement (and the RNC) and learn to embrace the younger generation.

Not every youngster today is pro abortion, pro global warming (by that I mean the lefts definition), and anti stem cell research. While the younger generation isn't as liberal as the media would make them sound, they aren't as out of touch as the right is. The right just needs to realize they need to give a bit and listen to this generation. We have some good ideas.

[J.C.]

Or they could just adopt a real conservative ideology, and not this bastardization of one they've been practicing since Reagan.

They haven't "lost", they aren't "screwed", but they do need to get away from these stoic, unrelatable folks running the movement (and the RNC) and learn to embrace the younger generation.

Not every youngster today is pro abortion, pro global warming (by that I mean the lefts definition), and anti stem cell research. While the younger generation isn't as liberal as the media would make them sound, they aren't as out of touch as the right is. The right just needs to realize they need to give a bit and listen to this generation. We have some good ideas.

Uh, wouldn't anti stem cell research define the Right?

Our generation overwhelmingly supports abortion rights. You're not going to find a poll with much more than 30% that oppose it.

I have no idea what 'pro global warming' means. I don't see it as a pro/con matter or even a politically partisan issue(in the sense that it shouldn't be). It's relevant to everyone's concerns though.

And most polls you'll find about the youth's feelings on gay marriage will show that over 60% support it's legalization, which usually polls them about 20% higher than the next highest age group.

So yes, those are losing social issues.

[x togepi x]

i think the younger generation is more liberal than the media makes us sound. but you can't really gauge things like that because it's based on how the questions are phrased. it was very recently that a big study came out that said like only half of americans support capitalism, yet another study at the same time said 70% supported it. it just depends on phrasing i guess.

[xshady121]

Uh, wouldn't anti stem cell research define the Right?

Nope. There are plenty of people who support it as long as the mother isn't concieving for the purpose of the stem cells.



Our generation overwhelmingly supports abortion rights. You're not going to find a poll with much more than 30% that oppose it.
That depends on the wording. As someone who is ambivolent to this point, I don't want to argue either way for it, but I would say you are wrong in saying our generation "overwhelmingly" supports it.


I have no idea what 'pro global warming' means. I don't see it as a pro/con matter or even a politically partisan issue(in the sense that it shouldn't be). It's relevant to everyone's concerns though.
I knew I didn't explain what I was trying to as well as I could have. I meant that a good portion of our generation, while recognizing the need to be green and conserve, doesn't buy into the problem as it's presented to us by the liberals (specifically by the film An Inconvenant Truth). There are plenty of people who question the hockey stick graph. Another example would be this link (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/09/court-identifies-eleven-inaccuracies-al-gore-s-inconvenient-truth), showing that there were plenty of inconsistencies within the film.


And most polls you'll find about the youth's feelings on gay marriage will show that over 60% support it's legalization, which usually polls them about 20% higher than the next highest age group.

While it is undeniable that they deserve rights, the level as to which they are and the label given to these rights are more up to debate than the media projects. Just like how the media tends to overestimate the democratic vote in general elections, they are overestimating this as well. We want to come off to the world as politically correct when in actuality we're far from it.


So yes, those are losing social issues.
You mean there are only 3 social issues?

[Mercy Medical]

I wonder what this country will be like 30 years from now when we're all our parents ages and have kids of our own. I would imagine that as we grow older and our parents/grandparents die we will continue to become more and more socially liberal, even the Republicans. I feel as though 30 years from now the social issues that Republican/Democrats argue will be very different or maybe not even exist at all. I think the gay marriage debate will get thrown out of the window eventually with the exception of a few. I think the Republicans will still retain the same stance on the abortion issue, however.

I dunno, it'll be interesting to see what happens especially in the Republican party.

[J.C.]

Nope. There are plenty of people who support it as long as the mother isn't concieving for the purpose of the stem cells.

I have no idea what you're trying to argue now. You're saying liberals oppose stem cell research?


That depends on the wording. As someone who is ambivolent to this point, I don't want to argue either way for it, but I would say you are wrong in saying our generation "overwhelmingly" supports it.

I'll give you the point that polls are always going to be vague, but generally over 60% support the option of abortion in at least some instances. That goes against how the Republicans currently portray their platform, particularly if they continue on the Palin route.


I knew I didn't explain what I was trying to as well as I could have. I meant that a good portion of our generation, while recognizing the need to be green and conserve, doesn't buy into the problem as it's presented to us by the liberals (specifically by the film An Inconvenant Truth). There are plenty of people who question the hockey stick graph. Another example would be this link (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/09/court-identifies-eleven-inaccuracies-al-gore-s-inconvenient-truth), showing that there were plenty of inconsistencies within the film.

I haven't even seen AIT and claiming that's the universal liberal position on global warming is silly. I also don't view this as a social or political issue to begin with(or at least that's not how it should be made out to be).


While it is undeniable that they deserve rights, the level as to which they are and the label given to these rights are more up to debate than the media projects. Just like how the media tends to overestimate the democratic vote in general elections, they are overestimating this as well. We want to come off to the world as politically correct when in actuality we're far from it.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Most polls you'll find will show that Americans overall don't favor gay marriage. What we're talking about is the youngest generation, which overwhelmingly does and will eventually make up the majority. And it's not about the youth wanting to be politically correct as it is them just having no issue with gay people. Most people have grown up having gay friends as a result of today's climate being more accepting than it was a generation or two ago.

You mean there are only 3 social issues?

Uh, no? Those were just specific issues being talked about which represent the biggest part of the Republican's social platform and those issues don't offer much potential for them long term. So yes, they need to find some new stuff.

[xshady121]

I have no idea what you're trying to argue now. You're saying liberals oppose stem cell research?

Nope, what I'm saying is that both sides should support it, and many on the right do. The problem is that (atleast one of the main arguements on the right) is the fear that a women could concieve a baby and abort just for the stem cells. But the right would be foolish to completely be against the stem cell issue.




I'll give you the point that polls are always going to be vague, but generally over 60% support the option of abortion in at least some instances. That goes against how the Republicans currently portray their platform, particularly if they continue on the Palin route.


Well being completely against it is just as foolish as the current position of the democrats. Both sides here are in the wrong.


I haven't even seen AIT and claiming that's the universal liberal position on global warming is silly. I also don't view this as a social or political issue to begin with(or at least that's not how it should be made out to be).
The belief that it is a problem unique to our generation is the liberal position, and is a major flaw in the hockey stick graph.




I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Most polls you'll find will show that Americans overall don't favor gay marriage. What we're talking about is the youngest generation, which overwhelmingly does and will eventually make up the majority. And it's not about the youth wanting to be politically correct as it is them just having no issue with gay people. Most people have grown up having gay friends as a result of today's climate being more accepting than it was a generation or two ago.

And isn't the trend to become more conservative as one grows older? I believe they'll get rights (as they should) but full equality certainly won't happen. Once again , another position where the right needs to move a bit to win (although it can't really be called a win, can it?).

[Mercy Medical]

And isn't the trend to become more conservative as one grows older? I believe they'll get rights (as they should) but full equality certainly won't happen. Once again , another position where the right needs to move a bit to win (although it can't really be called a win, can it?).That is the supposed trend, but I think it's bullshit in regards to gay rights. I know many parents and older individuals who have no problem with gay marriage. That would almost be equivalent to saying that our parents were okay with African American rights when they were younger, but suddenly became racist as they grew older. I think that's bullshit and would be completely untrue.

I think we tend to grow more fiscally conservative more then anything as we go older. I have a very difficult time believing that magically the youth of today who is perfectly okay with homosexuality would suddenly decide that it's a big no-no once they turn 45.

And if you believe that full equality will never happen, then you're out of your mind.

[Adeniz19]

i don't believe the whole people grow more conservative as they get older rhetoric. most people usually don't change their beliefs, the status quo thirty years from now will be the one that changes. it may seem people get more conservative, but in reality the world is becoming more liberal.

[J.C.]

People don't become more 'conservative' when they get older, they just become more steadfast in the positions they already had and less willing to change. To a degree that's a principle of conservativism(wanting to maintain the status quo), but it's not reflective of conservative values.

[saysmydoctor]

Or they could just adopt a real conservative ideology, and not this bastardization of one they've been practicing since Reagan.

They haven't "lost", they aren't "screwed", but they do need to get away from these stoic, unrelatable folks running the movement (and the RNC) and learn to embrace the younger generation.

Not every youngster today is pro abortion, pro global warming (by that I mean the lefts definition), and anti stem cell research. While the younger generation isn't as liberal as the media would make them sound, they aren't as out of touch as the right is. The right just needs to realize they need to give a bit and listen to this generation. We have some good ideas.
I don't think anyone on the face of the Earth is pro-abortion. I'm hoping the term you meant is pro-choice.

[J.C.]

I don't think anyone on the face of the Earth is pro-abortion. I'm hoping the term you meant is pro-choice.

Nope, everyone knows liberals love abortion. They crave baby flesh.

[GuitarR0cker1]

http://pcd.dreamhosters.com/538/images/gaym.PNG
Republicans are going to have to begin supporting civil unions in the next 10-20 years or they will start to have serious problems.

[GuitarR0cker1]

And isn't the trend to become more conservative as one grows older? I believe they'll get rights (as they should) but full equality certainly won't happen. Once again , another position where the right needs to move a bit to win (although it can't really be called a win, can it?).
Not with most social issues(abortion is an odd exception).

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Something I'm curious about is that if Republicans are forced to moderately support civil unions is if their support groups will stay with them.

[xshady121]

http://pcd.dreamhosters.com/538/images/gaym.PNG
Republicans are going to have to begin supporting civil unions in the next 10-20 years or they will start to have serious problems.

Thank you for the graph that backs up my point.

[xshady121]

Something I'm curious about is that if Republicans are forced to moderately support civil unions is if their support groups will stay with them.

Of course they will maintain the same support groups. It's not like this is a massive realignment here.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Something I'm curious about is that if Republicans are forced to moderately support civil unions is if their support groups will stay with them.
Their support groups will certainly stick with them once the Democrats start to take firm stances on legalizing gay marriage. The extreme social conservatives will have to vote for the lesser of two "evils". I would think that a respectable chunk social conservatives would have lukewarm support for civil unions by then anyway.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Thank you for the graph that backs up my point.
I don't see how it backs up your point...

[xshady121]

I don't see how it backs up your point...

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=40722402#post40722 402

specifically.


While it is undeniable that they deserve rights, the level as to which they are and the label given to these rights are more up to debate than the media projects. Just like how the media tends to overestimate the democratic vote in general elections, they are overestimating this as well. We want to come off to the world as politically correct when in actuality we're far from it.

The gap between approval of civil unions and marriage is significant.

[J.C.]

We don't do "separate, but equal" anymore, Shady. If you're going to say they deserve the rights, you can't limit them to a different degree. If you do that, you're saying a certain group if inferior to another, which goes against the notion that we're all created equal.

Civil Union supporters, in many many instances, are people who have trouble differentiating between civil marriage and religious marriage.

Civil marriage, as far as the state is concerned, is nothing more than a social contract between two consenting adults. There's zero reason why two random strangers of opposite sexes can be permitted to enter into a state-recognized social contract, but two people of the same sex who love each other can't.

[J.C.]

We don't do "separate, but equal" anymore, Shady. If you're going to say they deserve the rights, you can't limit them to a different degree. If you do that, you're saying a certain group if inferior to another, which goes against the notion that we're all created equal.

Civil Union supporters, in many many instances, are people who have trouble differentiating between civil marriage and religious marriage.

[saysmydoctor]

Plessy v Ferguson is no longer precedent.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Of course they will maintain the same support groups. It's not like this is a massive realignment here.

Their support groups will certainly stick with them once the Democrats start to take firm stances on legalizing gay marriage. The extreme social conservatives will have to vote for the lesser of two "evils". I would think that a respectable chunk social conservatives would have lukewarm support for civil unions by then anyway.

You guys think so ? Gay Marriage always seemed to me like a yes or no issue for them. I think that's apart of the reason the republican party has greatly rebelled against moderation. If they try to lead towards more of the center, then that'll upset a lot of their core bases but if they don't then they lose a lot of new voters. I think the behavior we've seen from them recently is them trying their absolute best to hold onto those people.