Living With Artwork
 

Living With Lions has started a Kickstarter to help recoup some of the $13,000+ they gave to the Canadian government after controversy with their artwork for Holy Shit. Full details in the replies.

Vancouver punk act Living With Lions endured a hailstorm of backlash from the Canadian government upon the release of their sophomore album Holy Shit earlier this year. Although critically acclaimed, the provocatively titled album was deemed “blasphemous” by the Canadian Heritage Minister due to the artwork and packaging, which on some level resembles a Bible, subtitled “The Poo Testament” with lyrics written like biblical verses. The controversy stems from the fact that the government-sponsored Foundation Assisting Canadian Talent on Recordings (FACTOR) provided funding to the band’s Canadian label Black Box Recordings, Inc, to the tune of $13,248 to offset the band’s costs of recording and releasing the album. With the government threatening to shut down FACTOR, Living With Lions and Black Box Recordings voluntarily decided to return the full amount of the loan in cash (rather than through sales over time), in order to keep their artwork untouched.

Now, Living with Lions is appealing to both fans and advocates of free speech to help pay back the loan through a Kickstarter campaign. The campaign urges people to pledge money in an effort to defend art-funding and the freedom for all to have protected artistic expression. The band recorded a PSA and released an official statement:

Video and Statement

The content of our artwork for our new recording was created out of our passion for satire and absurdist humor. The lyrical and musical content of this record does not contain any commentary on religion, nor does it use a pejorative or malicious voice against any particular group of people (excluding possibly some of our ex-girlfriends). When the idea came up to simply alter the artwork for HOLY SHIT without having to expedite the repayment to FACTOR (The Foundation Assisting Canadian Talent on Recordings), we chose to entirely return the money so that HOLY SHIT can forever remain true to the original format. The debate about government funding contributing to potentially controversial art is neither new nor truly resolved; but when the offended public complains, the politicians habitually remind groups like FACTOR, the NEA and the Arts Council that they can pull the plug rather than encourage discourse or scholarly debate. We would like to thank our fans, friends and family for their continued support.

Hang on....i gotta go knock off a few churches real quick....

Backed.

Shouldn't this be a label and management thing, not a fans thing? I understand the free speech part, but ultimately they were given 13 grand for free and got it taken away, so they want their free money back. I don't see why fans should have to take care of that. What other bands get 13 thousand dollars to record?

First donation. LEGIT

I have a solution to this. Don't give any money. I mean, it doesn't matter who gave the money, they are still down 13 grand that would have helped them record and play shows. If fans of the band have the money to help their favorite band come play a show, or record another album, all the power to them.

Might pledge the $25. I like Holy Shit enough to pick up the vinyl.

meh

I enjoy some of the music they have put out, but I am not sure I would want to repay their loan when they had the chance to change the artwork in the first place. I respect their decision to keep it the way it was intended, so that is their choice. I would like to think they would not have done it if they could not afford to do it. I would guess most fans already have the record so a lot of the packages are not much motivation. It looks like their goal is not the full amount of the loan. Hopefully the band can afford to pay the loan back regardless of this project.

i respect them taking a stand.. i'll donate

They will NOT be getting any money from me.

This is unbelievable.

did they not expect such a backlash for putting out something so offensive? I am a Christian, and I don't really care that they did what they did on their artwork. I also believe in the right for free speech. But when it make choices (jokes or not), there will be consequences. They had the chance to change their artwork and they didn't. I'm not saying they should have had too at all, they should be allowed to do what they want, but as someone who grew up in church, I know the backlash that it can have when you defame the something that they hold precious. I don't agree with what they chose to do, but I think they should have the right to do it.

EDIT: no, I will not be giving them money

Why?

I don't agree with what they did. I don't think it's cool to bash other people's beliefs. If you're not religious, that's fine, but just keep quiet.

Not really what they did

Clueless.

HOLY SHIT!

So displaying the central figure of one of the world's most-followed religions as a piece of feces is NOT intended to be offensive and put down that group?

Seriously now.

Yea i agree with this, I was under the impression the government sued them and screwed them over but the fact that they could have changed it and saved 13 grand its pretty dumb. When you're an up and coming artist you cant be that stubborn and you especially can't expect your fans to pick up the slack financially.

Integrity is worth more than money.

Why should the fans have to pay for their mistakes? I really hate this Kickstarter thing sometimes. It went from being a good idea to raise money for causes that actually kind of mattered to being a venue for bands to beg fans to pay for mistakes the band KNEW they were making. I watched an entire news story about this when I was living in Toronto. They made their own bed.

I'm a fan of Living With Lions, and not really a Christian. However I find it hard to pick a side. The fact they are down $13,000 sucks. The fact they are asking the fans to repay them for what initially was their mistake sucks. And the fact that people couldn't just take a joke to begin with sucks. So yeah...holy shit.

Fans don't have to pay for anything. It is entirely up to them, and it does come with something in return. I like the fact that they are taking this stance, a lot of Canadian artists benefit from FACTOR but what's the point if it censors the art they are making?

So religious people are allowed to be vocal about their beliefs, but non religious people aren't?

When people talk about all the wrong reasons to use Kickstarter, they should link to this article.

first off, i'm roman catholic. Doesnt need to be said, but there you go.

Second, I suppose you hate south park, the daily show, the cobert report, family guy and tosh.o as well. Right?

Doing things for attention isn't "art". I'm all for freedom of speech, but if you're just going to do things as a means to shock people, what's the point? It's not opening anyone's mind. Make a legitimate argument about why you feel something isn't right or why you dislike something. Be constructive. Making jesus out to be a pile of shit isn't constructive..or deep..or "artistic"...or anything.

....that makes no sense (this makes no sense this makes no sense this makes no). you need to elaborate, because this really doesn't make sense, though. It's not about being vocal, it's about watching what you say, actually.

The band themselves said they called the album Holy Shit for absolutely no reason, so I don't feel sorry for them. And if you don't believe that they said that, and want a quote, I can grab the interview for you, because I was the one that transcribed it. :shrug:

Exactly.

And again, the band say they have "childish humor", and they don't seem to care, so. :mellow:

Let's, for a moment, pretend that instead of a popular pop "punk" band, this were the Westboro Baptist Church..would those of you that are defending the cause still defend it?

Freedom of speech is vital to both our scene and our society as a whole. It's important that we can express how and what we feel, BUT there's absolutely no reason to take an extreme route that you know could possibly offend the people who support your band. Not to mention, how do you think it makes the Canadian government look if they don't ask for the money back, especially with how big its Christian population is. In the interestof impartiality and fairness, you can't fund something like that.

This is not an assault on free speech pr anyones right, so it's quite unfair for the band to take that stance - especially when you consider what's happening in places like Syria. It's simply the government trying to avoid any trouble amongst their religious population. You'd do the same if you have invested in something that turned out to be not what you'd expected and threatened to damage the public opinion of your organization.

I still find it strange when people complain about what others choose to give money to ... in the US we're being forced to "donate" money to a variety of causes I, personally, disagree with. Buying bombs and ammunition with tax money, for example. I get when people complain about that. I don't get when people get upset about voluntary donations. Their money. Their choice.

It's not people donating, it's bands begging and almost expecting it. There's $60 million dollars in damage to parts of Pennsylvania right now due to flooding, and this band wants money to get out of a situation they put themselves in. It's just selfish. Whatever happened to musicians working for what they have?

People need to stop getting so butthurt. People that actually give a shit about the band will donate money (I personally will be buying some merch from them on their upcoming tour with Broadway Calls as well as donating) and people who don't like the band won't. It's not like they are forcing anyone to do anything that they don't want to do.

The floods in Pennsylvania have nothing to do with this. I can list 10,000 different things that need more money put towards them yet our government fucking wastes it on weapons and wars. They are a smaller struggling band that has worked hard what they have achieved. It's not like this is some band that is headlining tours and selling out 2000 capacity venues. It's not selfish because I doubt they are expecting that much support, but it's worth a shot. They are just asking for some help from devoted fans of the band that aren't ignorant as fuck like yourself.

Ok, I don't understand why people care if a band is begging or not. So? Same logic as my above post applies. People can spend their money however they want. If they have a connection with a band and want to support them in that way - fine by me. I'm not going to complain how someone else spends their money. Their prerogative to spend it however they want, even if it's not what I would do. People have the right to be selfish.

As for "there are other things money should be spent on" -- yeah, I agree. And $60 million went "missing" from the Iraq war. I'd rather that money not have just "vanished" and the people of Pennsylvania could use it for damages. Also not my call though. I'm not in any position to start making claims what "deserves" someone else's money and what doesn't. Not my money, not my decision. I don't want people making calls on what I spend my money on, so I'm not going to make calls on what they do.

Musicans have, by and large, always been in debt to someone. That's the nature of the industry.

Bands struggle! it's part of being small! I've seen bands with 10x the talent of the band in question fold because of monetary issues. Was I supposed to give them money on top of what I spent on merch and paying their guarantees? Look, if their van got stolen, or the practice space burned down, or something that no one could control I wouldn't care...but they got themselves into this mess. The fans shouldn't have to pay for it.

It's actually a transaction between two willing parties.

I'm sure they expected to have to pay $13,000 dollars back and just did it for shits and giggles. That sounds about right. Why are you so pissed anyways? You aren't going to be giving any money to them, so why do you care so much? They obviously knew their would be people on the internet that would shit on them because of this mess and they still don't give a fuck about those people. I like it when a band has a mind of their own and I will always support independent music. Just because you don't like the band, doesn't mean you have to go shitting on other people for giving them money.

Exactly. I think it's sad we gave Abandon All Ships $20 000 to do this and Living With Lions doesn't get to keep any of their funding because of this mess. Too many people (who would never think of buying a LWL record anyway) took this way too seriously. The album artwork is just a dumb joke, not an attention grabber.

They offered it to the government. Did you not read that big paragrah at the begining of the thread? I have no negative feelings toward LWL. They're just another band and in two years they'll be just another memory. i just like debating, and I find it interesting how heated people get when faced with an opposing viewpoint..instead of, y'know, talking like the adults that we are.

Woah, what an offensive piece of art. AND they said 'The Poo Testament?' Ooooooh, hide the children!
:rolleyes:

They called the album "Holy Shit" for precisely "shits & giggles", so this is how it ended up.

They got themselves into this? They made a joke that people took too seriously, doesn't mean it was there fault. If they had funded the album themselves, people would still freak out at them over this

You honestly believe that calling an album Holy Shit (a very, very, very, very, very common phrase), then making the album seem leatherbound (like a Bible!) and using the phrase 'The Poo Testament' is worthy of them having to pay back the $13,000 they received to fund the album?

Man, never heard this band, but I'll be donating once I get paid tomorrow.

Imagine you had an investment company. You invested in a product. When the product comes out, you find that it's incredibly offensive to some of your other clients and consumers, and it's jeopardizing the image of your company. Would you endorse the product and willingly deal with all of the complaints and possible loss in business and credibility, or pull ask for your money back in the interest of impartiality? 77% of Canadian consider themselves to be Christian, and though the country has no official religion, it doesn't make them look good to endorse this.

Umm YES they DID expect to pay $13,000 back because it was a LOAN! What part of that are people not getting? They had to pay it back anyway and instead of paying it back themselves, they are asking their fans to. Disgraceful.

this whole thing makes me hate bible thumpers even more than I already do