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  -  What Makes an Album a Classic? (http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=2958982)

Jason Tate 11/20/12 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Beringer (Post 115616572)
also fuck you, you don't make the rules here.


:lol:

ChaseTx 11/20/12 02:59 PM

In regards to Kanye, his classics are the first 2. MBDTF doesn't come close.

Star Slight 11/20/12 02:59 PM

I think were all aware of that

Holly HoX! 11/20/12 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseTx (Post 115616622)
In regards to Kanye, his classics are the first 2. MBDTF doesn't come close.


Have always thought this, always will

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:02 PM

Mbdtf is not a "classic" and ive asked why people call it one multiple times and everyones like oh. Everyone naming all their classic albums in here negates what the article said and just adds to the detrimental consumption of popular culture

Jason Tate 11/20/12 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseTx (Post 115616622)
In regards to Kanye, his classics are the first 2. MBDTF doesn't come close.


Could not disagree more.

georgedcc 11/20/12 03:03 PM

Do people think you can call an album a classic without liking it? I don't really like The Rolling Stones, but their influence is so vast that it can't be denied. Still doesn't mean I particularly like their music, but can I honestly say that Exile on Main Street or Let it Bleed is a classic album, despite the fact that I probably won't listen to that album again?

I guess you could use the Finch and Underoath examples like Drew did, but I'd be extremely reluctant to call those albums classics.

Jason Tate 11/20/12 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115616712)
Mbdtf is not a "classic" and ive asked why people call it one multiple times and no one answers. Everyone naming all their classic albums in here negates what the article said and just adds to the detrimental consumption of popular culture

The comments aren't for the article - it's for the news post - which includes the entire second paragraph. Your final sentence makes no sense. The consumption I popular culture?

Drew Beringer 11/20/12 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseTx (Post 115616622)
In regards to Kanye, his classics are the first 2. MBDTF doesn't come close.

this is a fantastic debate and I'm excited for it to play out. For the record, I think all 3 of those records are classics, all 3 are so different and show how versatile West is. College Dropout is more a pure hip hop classic based on the production, the album's flow, and the lyrical content. Late Registration had more of Kanye tapping into that pop sound (not in the sense of something like Justin Beiber or the like, but in the fact he worked with Jon Brion on some it and whatnot; a lot of strings a lot of baroque influence, etc.). MBDTF is more of the man going deep inside his psyche, matching production with the content - being grandiose as well as vulnerable. It's like a rock opera, it's his The Wall or Sgt Pepper's, etc.

I personally rank MBDTF as tops, but I can see and understand the arguments made for his first two albums.

Drew Beringer 11/20/12 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgedcc (Post 115616742)
Do people think you can call an album a classic without liking it? I don't really like The Rolling Stones, but their influence is so vast that it can't be denied. Still doesn't mean I particularly like their music, but can I honestly say that Exile on Main Street or Let it Bleed is a classic album, despite the fact that I probably won't listen to that album again?

I guess you could use the Finch and Underoath examples like Drew did, but I'd be extremely reluctant to call those albums classics.

well, it's important to realize that I mentioned those albums in the context of this "scene" and not music in general. People are just going to read the albums and not realize the context they are in.

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Tate (Post 115616762)
The comments aren't for the article - it's for the news post - which includes the entire second paragraph. Your final sentence makes no sense. The consumption I popular culture?


Yes. The fact that listeners constantly compare every hip hop album that comes out to classics like Illmatic. Thus causing artists to strive to make "classic" albums which they ultimately fail at.

The conversation was caused by the article, I think people should read and think about it before they argue if MBDTF is classic or not. It shouldnt matter

Drew Beringer 11/20/12 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115616712)
Mbdtf is not a "classic" and ive asked why people call it one multiple times and everyones like oh. Everyone naming all their classic albums in here negates what the article said and just adds to the detrimental consumption of popular culture

I've made my case for it throughout various Kanye West related news posts during the time it was released. I'm not going to rehash it because I already know you won't agree and that's fine, you have your mind made up and so do I.

georgedcc 11/20/12 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Beringer (Post 115616832)
well, it's important to realize that I mentioned those albums in the context of this "scene" and not music in general. People are just going to read the albums and not realize the context they are in.

Well, I think I understood the context, sorry if I mis-represented your view there.

What I'm getting at, I guess is, does it make sense for me to say 'Underoath's TOCS is a classic album within "The Scene", but that album fucking sucks"?

Drew Beringer 11/20/12 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgedcc (Post 115617002)
Well, I think I understood the context, sorry if I mis-represented your view there.

What I'm getting at, I guess is, does it make sense for me to say 'Underoath's TOCS is a classic album within "The Scene", but that album fucking sucks"?

that's fine. I agree with that too, as TOCS is my least favorite Underoath album by far, and there are plenty of artists and albums that I know are influential to music and are considered as a classic that I have no care for.

Jason Tate 11/20/12 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115616872)
Yes. The fact that listeners constantly compare every hip hop album that comes out to classics like Illmatic. Thus causing artists to strive to make "classic" albums which they ultimately fail at.

The conversation was caused by the article, I think people should read and think about it before they argue if MBDTF is classic or not. It shouldnt matter

Why not strive for greatness?

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Tate (Post 115617292)
Why not strive for greatness?


Theres a difference. A big difference. And that leaves out the listener/critic's opinions which are pretty important in terms of criticism and analysis these days

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115616872)
Yes. The fact that listeners constantly compare every hip hop album that comes out to classics like Illmatic. Thus causing artists to strive to make "classic" albums which they ultimately fail at.


I don't think there's a whole lot of rappers out there releasing albums right now that actually strive to make something cohesive. In the end, a lot of them come out with a string of singles like 2 Chainz, Rick Ross, and Big Sean that knows their audience just wants a few songs.

Jason Tate 11/20/12 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115617372)
Theres a difference. A big difference


I have no idea what you're saying.

Drew Beringer 11/20/12 03:20 PM

well and just making a handful of big hits instead of a cohesive or challenging album (this goes for all genres) is easier and much more lucrative.

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Tate (Post 115617432)
I have no idea what you're saying.

Agreed.

TheRxBandit 11/20/12 03:20 PM

I read that Pitchfork article, and I completely agree. I can't understand why people listen to Kendrick's album and instantly call it a classic. More than half of these people will put this album out of their personal rotation in 6 months and possibly never return to it.

Certainly there is a difference between a personal classic and a generally acclaimed "classic" record. For example, a personal classic of mine will be Saves The Day's "Stay What You Are". While this record is considered a classic within the means of music listeners who seek out the emo/punk scene, for the majority of people, it's not. I'd say something like The College Dropout is on it's way to be a worldwide "classic". Has lasting value, tracks are still played by people all over the world to this very day.

I guess you really also have to consider the fact that our generation is far more saturated with music than the generations before us, which makes it harder to push through everything we personally enjoy and find the albums that are considered gems by society as a whole.

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Beringer (Post 115617472)
well and just making a handful of big hits instead of a cohesive or challenging album (this goes for all genres) is easier and much more lucrative.

Also true.

Stephin_DC 11/20/12 03:20 PM

To me a classic is a record that completely shifts the musical climate of the time. Even if the record wasn't necessarily the first album to sound like that, it for some reason (in lots of occasions it is an individual song) was the first to garner wide spread attention and shift the majority of peoples musical taste in that direction (Eg Enema, Dookie, Nevermind). Saying that however, since the start of the internet it is really hard to pinpoint which record was the true pioneer (especially in the scene, where radio play doesn't exist for the most part) as in most cases a lot of records emerge at the same time that are generally the same sound, so the "classic" record changes among different areas of people and different groups of friends.

For example in 2002, when the scene started its shift from pop-punk to post hardcore there was a lot of records that came out that made that it happen (The Used, What it is to Burn, Tell All Your Friends, Box Car Racer, The Illusion of Safety). For me I would say Tell All Your Friends is the classic record as thats the one that me and my friends related to the most, but for another group of people it may have been another record.

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaugzilla (Post 115617402)
I don't think there's a whole lot of rappers out there releasing albums right now that actually strive to make something cohesive. In the end, a lot of them come out with a string of singles like 2 Chainz, Rick Ross, and Big Sean that knows their audience just wants a few songs.


I mean, as the article points out, even meek mill did it. Im arguing more about listeners calling things classics. Its tough to dissect the artists true motives and stuff

Drew Beringer 11/20/12 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRxBandit (Post 115617512)
I read that Pitchfork article, and I completely agree. I can't understand why people listen to Kendrick's album and instantly call it a classic. More than half of these people will put this album out of their personal rotation in 6 months and possibly never return to it.

Certainly there is a difference between a personal classic and a generally acclaimed "classic" record. For example, a personal classic of mine will be Saves The Day's "Stay What You Are". While this record is considered a classic within the means of music listeners who seek out the emo/punk scene, for the majority of people, it's not. I'd say something like The College Dropout is on it's way to be a worldwide "classic". Has lasting value, tracks are still played by people all over the world to this very day.

I guess you really also have to consider the fact that our generation is far more saturated with music than the generations before us, which makes it harder to push through everything we personally enjoy and find the albums that are considered gems by society as a whole.

I think your last statement is a great point.

Dustin Harkins 11/20/12 03:23 PM

Okay time for a ton of quotes cuz I like this discussion.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly HoX! (Post 115614732)
You Forget It In People
Enter the 36 Chambers
TVU&N
Loveless
Nevermind
Funeral
CYHSY
Dookie
Straight Outta Compton
Ready to Die

Person Pitch
The Low End Theory

Yessss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeeve Perry (Post 115615102)
I'd say this and Funeral would be the most recent examples of albums widely considered instant classics.

Everyone has a different opinion of which albums are classic anyway but for me it's the albums I can listen to on repeat and return to, and those which just blow my mind. Separation Sunday and The Moon and Antarctica are examples where, by the third listen, I could not believe how amazing they were.

Although my definition of a classic is different, I love this album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXP (Post 115615522)
My opinion of what makes an album "classic" is how it hits me. If it hits me the way it did as I first listened to it or if it hits me more than at first. My prime example for me is my favorite album "Discovery" by Daft Punk. That album will hit me the same way as when I die as when I first listened to it.

Yesssss x2

Quote:

Originally Posted by CluckyB (Post 115615872)
I think one thing that hasn't been addressed yet is influence. What did the album do for the rest of the genre going forward. Obviously an album being influential and an album being a classic aren't quite the same thing -- but if an album isn't special enough to inspire other musicians to perfect their own craft I'm not sure it can be a true "classic"

Agreed. Should've added that to my post as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseTx (Post 115616622)
In regards to Kanye, his classics are the first 2. MBDTF doesn't come close.

I'd say all 3 are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115616712)
Mbdtf is not a "classic" and ive asked why people call it one multiple times and everyones like oh. Everyone naming all their classic albums in here negates what the article said and just adds to the detrimental consumption of popular culture

I could tell you why MBDTF is a classic, Drew touched on it a bit below. If you do want to hear my thoughts of it we'll discuss it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Beringer (Post 115616772)
this is a fantastic debate and I'm excited for it to play out. For the record, I think all 3 of those records are classics, all 3 are so different and show how versatile West is. College Dropout is more a pure hip hop classic based on the production, the album's flow, and the lyrical content. Late Registration had more of Kanye tapping into that pop sound (not in the sense of something like Justin Beiber or the like, but in the fact he worked with Jon Brion on some it and whatnot; a lot of strings a lot of baroque influence, etc.). MBDTF is more of the man going deep inside his psyche, matching production with the content - being grandiose as well as vulnerable. It's like a rock opera, it's his The Wall or Sgt Pepper's, etc.

I personally rank MBDTF as tops, but I can see and understand the arguments made for his first two albums.

Agreed 100%.

Jason Tate 11/20/12 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115617552)
I mean, as the article points out, even meek mill did it. Im arguing more about listeners calling things classics. Its tough to dissect the artists true motives and stuff


Most modern philosophy is that artistic intent doesn't matter in critical judgement.

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRxBandit (Post 115617512)
I read that Pitchfork article, and I completely agree. I can't understand why people listen to Kendrick's album and instantly call it a classic. More than half of these people will put this album out of their personal rotation in 6 months and possibly never return to it.

Certainly there is a difference between a personal classic and a generally acclaimed "classic" record. For example, a personal classic of mine will be Saves The Day's "Stay What You Are". While this record is considered a classic within the means of music listeners who seek out the emo/punk scene, for the majority of people, it's not. I'd say something like The College Dropout is on it's way to be a worldwide "classic". Has lasting value, tracks are still played by people all over the world to this very day.

I guess you really also have to consider the fact that our generation is far more saturated with music than the generations before us, which makes it harder to push through everything we personally enjoy and find the albums that are considered gems by society as a whole.

I think they listen to it and call it a classic because it has a lot of elements of other classic albums like some wordplay, flow and lyrics similar to a Nas or Common, storytelling like, again, Nas or Kanye West and social commentary.

It's probably out of line to automatically deem it a classic, but you can't also say that and make the sweeping statement that everyone is going to put it on the shelf in a year or so. It has all the makings of something really. Time will tell.

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Tate (Post 115617432)
I have no idea what you're saying.


Im on mobile and dont feel like fleshing it out right now. If you really care, everything that I am trying to say was discussed more eloquently in the kendrick thread by myself and argentine

saywhatever 11/20/12 03:25 PM

You shouldn't be trying to make a "classic". Make the best music you can sure, and if it has an impact then great. But you shouldn't go into anything thinking about making a "classic" cause more often than not you'll fail.

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Tate (Post 115617652)
Most modern philosophy is that artistic intent doesn't matter in critical judgement.


Which is why Im sorry i brought the artist into it. My point on the consumer still stands

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115617552)
I mean, as the article points out, even meek mill did it. Im arguing more about listeners calling things classics. Its tough to dissect the artists true motives and stuff


True, but I don't necessarily consider the artist's motives when I like something. Chris Cornell jumbled a bunch of words together and made "Black Hole Sun" - that doesn't make me like it any less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephin_DC;115617532[B
]To me a classic is a record that completely shifts the musical climate of the time. Even if the record wasn't necessarily the first album to sound like that, it for some reason (in lots of occasions it is an individual song) was the first to garner wide spread attention and shift the majority of peoples musical taste in that direction (Eg Enema, Dookie, Nevermind).[/b]


I disagree that a classic album has to make a landmark statement. Kanye West's "808s and Heartbreak" ushered in the R&B that we hear today from The Weeknd, Frank Ocean and Miguel, but it's a very flawed album that proved R&B could be dark. MBDTF was a classic, in my opinion, and really didn't change much about hip-hop.

SpyKi 11/20/12 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkerisjolley (Post 115615122)
I will never understand why so many people consider ok computer to be the gold standard of a lot of music. I've tried listening to that cd but I just think it is really overrated and way too overhyped.

One cd that will always be a classic to me is jack's mannequin's everything in transit

lol

ranoa513 11/20/12 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatever (Post 115617742)
You shouldn't be trying to make a "classic". Make the best music you can sure, and if it has an impact then great. But you shouldn't go into anything thinking about making a "classic" cause more often than not you'll fail.

Why would you not strive for the best? Complacency is for losers. "It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we [...] have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory." -Bill Nicholson

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaugzilla (Post 115617852)
True, but I don't necessarily consider the artist's motives when I like something. Chris Cornell jumbled a bunch of words together and made "Black Hole Sun" - that doesn't make me like it any less.



I disagree that a classic album has to make a landmark statement. Kanye West's "808s and Heartbreak" ushered in the R&B that we hear today from The Weeknd, Frank Ocean and Miguel, but it's a very flawed album that proved R&B could be dark. MBDTF was a classic, in my opinion, and really didn't change much about hip-hop.


My main point for bringing the artist into it stemmed from the article touching on Meek. Ive followed the dude from his bootlegged franklin mills mall mixtapes. Dreams and nightmares is a good album but it isnt a Meek album. Thats not the rapper he was before he got famous and its not the rapper he was on dreamchasers 2. He tried to do something different, thats obvious, and the writer speculates that he was trying to make what he thought was a classic. Obviously no one can know for sure, but the idea of hip hop artists trying to make classics by changing their sound is scary

It all comes down to everyone trying to compare every hip hop album/artist to the classics. No one compares the new Menzingers album to the Clash or to Zeppelin. Hip hop is too young but also too diverse to be doing that, which is why i dont get down with classics talk

bobby runs 11/20/12 03:36 PM

Before reading anything:

TIME

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115618092)
My main point for bringing the artist into it stemmed from the article touching on Meek. Ive followed the dude from his bootlegged franklin mills mall mixtapes. Dreams and nightmares is a good album but it isnt a Meek album. Thats not the rapper he was before he got famous and its not the rapper he was on dreamchasers 2. He tried to do something different, thats obvious, and the writer speculates that he was trying to make what he thought was a classic. Obviously no one can know for sure, but the idea of hip hop artists trying to make classics by changing their sound is scary

It all comes down to everyone trying to compare every hip hop album/artist to the classics. No one compares the new Menzingers album to the Clash or to Zeppelin. Hip hop is too young but also too diverse to be doing that, which is why i dont get down with classics talk

Ah ok. I get what you're saying. Yea, I felt like that album was out of Meek's wheelhouse. But I blame that on Maybach Music. I'm one of those people that think they ruin everything.

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaugzilla (Post 115618222)
Ah ok. I get what you're saying. Yea, I felt like that album was out of Meek's wheelhouse. But I blame that on Maybach Music. I'm one of those people that think they ruin everything.


Ha, well that could be. I think meek was in his element/shined on MMG stuff though

SpyKi 11/20/12 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgedcc (Post 115616742)
Do people think you can call an album a classic without liking it? I don't really like The Rolling Stones, but their influence is so vast that it can't be denied. Still doesn't mean I particularly like their music, but can I honestly say that Exile on Main Street or Let it Bleed is a classic album, despite the fact that I probably won't listen to that album again?

I guess you could use the Finch and Underoath examples like Drew did, but I'd be extremely reluctant to call those albums classics.

yeah, I'd say so. There's a ton of albums I don't personally enjoy that I'd consider classics.

saywhatever 11/20/12 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranoa513 (Post 115618062)
Why would you not strive for the best? Complacency is for losers. "It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we [...] have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory." -Bill Nicholson

I just said strive for the best. But going in saying "this will be a classic" is stupid.

Craig Manning 11/20/12 03:45 PM

That article (great read by the way) reminds me of this blog post. And if any album this year has been on the receiving end of the sort of hero-posturing critical acclaim that Nosnitsky writes of here, it's Channel ORANGE.

ranoa513 11/20/12 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatever (Post 115618272)
I just said strive for the best. But going in saying "this will be a classic" is stupid.

Most people in this thread are defining "classic" as standing the test of time (basically), or being influential, something to aspire to. I have no problem with people trying to produce something like that, even if the failure rate is astronomically high.

bobby runs 11/20/12 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Beringer (Post 115616392)
And I would say Brand New's Deja, Taking Back Sunday's TAYF, Finch's WIITB and Underoath's TOCS are "scene" classics because after those albums released so many bands emulated and tried to create a record like that.

I would say that today's generation of "scene" bands are drawing more influence from classic albums of the late 90s

I agree with what you're saying here. Not in terms of these albums being the best from this "scene" but how they influenced a certain sound.

I definitely see newer bands going to the late 90s too.

Star Slight 11/20/12 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Manning (Post 115618602)
That article (great read by the way) reminds me of this blog post. And if any album this year has been on the receiving end of the sort of hero-posturing critical acclaim that Nosnitsky writes of here, it's Channel ORANGE.


Good article

bobby runs 11/20/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 115616712)
Mbdtf is not a "classic" and ive asked why people call it one multiple times and everyones like oh. Everyone naming all their classic albums in here negates what the article said and just adds to the detrimental consumption of popular culture

It is a classic at this point in time and will probably outlast other albums even within West's own discography.

For one the middle section of that album ("All of the Lights"-"Runaway") is one of the best I've ever heard. Every song in that sequenced is nailed perfectly. Another thing I think that makes the album a classic is that there's always something you hear when going back to it that makes it even better. 2 examples: 1)good friend told me the most underrated and overlooked verse was Raekwon's on "Gorgeous" 2)Discovering that the Chris Rock bit on "Blame Game" was who 'Ye was rapping about made me like that bit a LOT more

I also feel that it's West at his best. He took the best of his previous albums and wrapped it all together to make his best work.

Oh and I think it's the best 80 minutes in music in forever. Whenever I listen to that album it doesn't feel like a chore to listen to that much music. It never feels like 80 minutes.

Gaugzilla 11/20/12 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Manning (Post 115618602)
That article (great read by the way) reminds me of this blog post. And if any album this year has been on the receiving end of the sort of hero-posturing critical acclaim that Nosnitsky writes of here, it's Channel ORANGE.

Great read. I agree with very, very little of it.

Star Slight 11/20/12 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby runs (Post 115618882)
It is a classic at this point in time and will probably outlast other albums even within West's own discography.

For one the middle section of that album ("All of the Lights"-"Runaway") is one of the best I've ever heard. Every song in that sequenced is nailed perfectly. Another thing I think that makes the album a classic is that there's always something you hear when going back to it that makes it even better. 2 examples: 1)good friend told me the most underrated and overlooked verse was Raekwon's on "Gorgeous" 2)Discovering that the Chris Rock bit on "Blame Game" was who 'Ye was rapping about made me like that bit a LOT more

I also feel that it's West at his best. He took the best of his previous albums and wrapped it all together to make his best work.

Oh and I think it's the best 80 minutes in music in forever. Whenever I listen to that album it doesn't feel like a chore to listen to that much music. It never feels like 80 minutes.

I mean I don't disagree with it being a very good album, it was one of my favorites from 2010. And I can understand why people love it so much, it's very different from just about any other album out there. But why do people feel the need to call it a "classic" right now? Or a week after it was released? That's what I'm trying to get at. I can honestly see it becoming a classic down the line. 5-10 years after its influence has changed the rap game, which it kind've already has, I'd be more comfortable discussing the album in that context

Craig Manning 11/20/12 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaugzilla (Post 115618912)
Great read. I agree with very, very little of it.


Yeah, no doubt that some people genuinely adore everything on that album. But for me, it misses as much as it hits and I would like to hear a more focused and concise record from Ocean. I hope his career doesn't, as that person says, plateau in pursuit of more of the same.

Mirrorsandfevers 11/20/12 04:05 PM

Silent Alarm comes to mind.

Star Slight 11/20/12 04:05 PM

These are probably the two key posts that we made in the Kendrick thread, and they sum up my opinions pretty well regarding the whole "classics" thing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Slight (Post 114572702)
I think that my problem with a lot of this is, at the risk of sounding pretentious, the relative ignorance towards the genre as a whole for newer listeners who might have just gotten into it. And I have to tread lightly here, because there is absolutely nothing wrong with just getting into the genre. It's amazing that the dynamic on this site has changed, as slightly as it has, over the past few years in regards to hip hop. More and more people are voicing their opinions and that's great. It needs all the help it can get on this site because of the negative stigma that a good amount of people (some super prominent) put on it.

With that being said, because of this newfound interest of the genre I can't really buy some of the "future classic" and "future legend" claims being made on here as well as how much hype and praise this album has gotten. Call me jaded. I see potential like everyone else, I just don't see why people are suddenly infatuated with every hip hop album being a classic and every rapper being the GOAT.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Argentine (Post 114574022)
We discussed this in the hip-hop thread with the fascination with having some sort of "savior" that we both didn't buy and we got the same looks then. It seems like a call to arms: an album comes out, is hailed by every reviewer as some sort of pivotal step forward for the genre, all the fans get worked up over it, and at best it'll remain engraved in the public consciousness as some sort of standard that all hip-hop albums must meet. It's absolutely degrading to the genre. It's an unhealthy way to consume art, fuck understanding it. It breeds essentialism, elitism, messianism and anything else that prevents outsiders from potentially coming in and dissecting it and discussing it intelligently. That's absolutely dangerous; people being predicated on the idea that something like Kanye's last album is some benchmark that is only meant to be eclipsed by something even more monolithic is a dangerous way to approach art when most music in any genre that can be considered good works within established parameters defined by technique, location, lyrical style, cadence, whatever. This isn't me saying that albums of monolithic proportion and importance shouldn't be made and treated as such, but they shouldn't be treated as impregnable because it breeds the kind of discussion that goes on here almost every time an album like this drops.