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11:05 AM on 11/10/12 
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jawstheme
I'm not here. This isn't happening.
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Pennsylvania
Male - 29 Years Old
I don't know...the way he's describing it makes it sound almost like the flat tax some of the Republicans were pushing. Have everyone at one level, and then maybe a 2nd higher level for extremely high incomes.


But I don't know enough to know if their poor have to pay that 35% rate or if there are ways for lower income folks to pay less in taxes and etc

Well I look at the debt I'm for getting the education I want and the cost of me going to the doctor (and a health care system with huge problems in just about every area) and I am very jealous of their tax rate. Its because as tkamb said, they use their taxes to directly benefit the public in ways far more efficient than our system.
11:11 AM on 11/10/12 
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David87
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Wilmington, DE
Male - 26 Years Old
Their taxation system is actually more regressive than ours, they just use government spending in a far more progressive manner.

Well I look at the debt I'm for getting the education I want and the cost of me going to the doctor (and a health care system with huge problems in just about every area) and I am very jealous of their tax rate. Its because as tkamb said, they use their taxes to directly benefit the public in ways far more efficient than our system.


Yeah true enough. I certainly wouldn't care about poor people paying a 35% tax rate if it meant they were getting more services for the taxes they pay. Unfortunately Americans have been hypnotized since Reagan into believing all public services are bad, anti-american, etc....bleh.
02:33 PM on 11/10/12 
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Ollie McKraut
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Male - 23 Years Old
It depends on how much you make and how you make it. I get taxed about 8% and make about 10-11k a year. It progresses that way where the more you make the more you get taxed. However, there are very little taxes levied on returns from investments (capital gains). For example if you invest in Apple and their stock prices go higher, the money you made off that would not be subject to much taxation.

But yes our tax system is screwed and the rich need to be taxed a lot more.

Capital gains are taxed at a lower rate to incentivize investment. Investing in another's business is voluntary deferral of your own purchasing power, in favor of lending it to another entity that can use it to generate capital appreciation for both themselves and you.

Meanwhile your investment grows that business (money to buy a big machine, for instance), allowing them to prosper within their community, ideally serving more customers with a useful product, and employing more workers to increase production. Meanwhile, that growth makes your investment attractive to other growth-seeking investors, who will pay for the rights to the access you bought. Sell high.

You've earned a little money and helped grow a business, which in turn is pretty good for everybody involved in the economy. However, you accepted some risk, and also deferred access to your own money. You only did that because you expected to make a real gain on that money. If you were to be taxed on that gain the same amount as your income and paycheck, you probably would have just bought a Ferrari. Great for you and Ferrari, but not for the general economy.

On the other hand, if taxes were bumped up on your income, you probably wouldn't just quit working (though eventually, you would). So that is why capital gains are taxed less than income. It's a behavior the government needs in order to keep the economy growing, to support the tax base it needs to build roads, bridges, etc. When investment and liquidity locks up, it's very bad (see the end of this century's first decade).

That low, capital gains tax rate is available to everybody, though high fixed costs of trading and little "disposable" income often exclude the bottom tax tier (probably won't be buying any APPL). But as an eighteen year old who'd been working a couple hours a week in high school, I remember scraping up enough to make a couple of ETrade swaps that ended up gaining a thousand bucks before I had to sell to cover the last bit of my college bill next winter. To my chagrin, I later got a bill from the IRS for the taxes haha.
03:09 PM on 11/10/12 
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David87
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Wilmington, DE
Male - 26 Years Old
People are still going to invest money whether the gain is taxed at 15% or 25%.


A businessman is going to worry about one thing, and one thing only...making money. He'll pay the taxes on the money he makes later.
04:13 PM on 11/10/12 
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apoemtothedead
ppppppppttttttttt.
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TX
Male - 26 Years Old
People are still going to invest money whether the gain is taxed at 15% or 25%.


A businessman is going to worry about one thing, and one thing only...making money. He'll pay the taxes on the money he makes later.
The more your businessman is taxed, the less money he takes home, decreasing his "real-cash" ROI, decreasing the amount of investments he'd possibly make as they are not as "real-cash" profitable.

Don't pretend like people out there don't sit on hoards of cash.
04:43 PM on 11/10/12 
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David87
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Wilmington, DE
Male - 26 Years Old
So you're agreeing that a business person will invest if they see opportunity to make money.

A 25% tax rate is not going to stop any significant amount of investment. The uncertainty of what the rates are going to be are a far bigger roadblock to investment than the actual rates themselves.
05:38 PM on 11/10/12 
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apoemtothedead
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TX
Male - 26 Years Old
So you're agreeing that a business person will invest if they see opportunity to make money.

A 25% tax rate is not going to stop any significant amount of investment. The uncertainty of what the rates are going to be are a far bigger roadblock to investment than the actual rates themselves.
Yes, they will invest when they see an opportunity. They're also only likely to invest if they feel their investment will return X%, either because they will wait for another opportunity or, simply, feel the investment may not be worth their time.

An increase of tax rates will have a material effect on their real-cash ROI and in instances with push investments from above X to below X, and thus decrease investment.

I'm not saying I don't think capital gains rates should be raised. I think it's something worth looking into but the basis of your argument is flawed.
01:22 AM on 11/11/12 
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mazerfaka
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Sweden
Male - 25 Years Old
But I don't know enough to know if their poor have to pay that 35% rate or if there are ways for lower income folks to pay less in taxes and etc
You have to pay 35%! It doesnt matter what you earn or what you work with!
01:28 AM on 11/11/12 
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mazerfaka
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Sweden
Male - 25 Years Old
Well I look at the debt I'm for getting the education I want and the cost of me going to the doctor (and a health care system with huge problems in just about every area) and I am very jealous of their tax rate. Its because as tkamb said, they use their taxes to directly benefit the public in ways far more efficient than our system.

It's not that simple! You get the ground education for free! And it's mandetory until your 16 years old, then you can choose a more specialized "gymnasium" for three years, that's free as well! But if you want to study on University or something like that you have to take a loan!

Our healthcare system is free, but when you turn 20 you have to pay! But it's cheap, like 100$ to fix a broken arm.
But our dental healthcare system is only free up to your 20th birthday. And then it becomes super expensive!
05:59 AM on 11/11/12 
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jawstheme
I'm not here. This isn't happening.
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Pennsylvania
Male - 29 Years Old
It's not that simple! You get the ground education for free! And it's mandetory until your 16 years old, then you can choose a more specialized "gymnasium" for three years, that's free as well! But if you want to study on University or something like that you have to take a loan!

Our healthcare system is free, but when you turn 20 you have to pay! But it's cheap, like 100$ to fix a broken arm.
But our dental healthcare system is only free up to your 20th birthday. And then it becomes super expensive!

Everything I've read said University is free for Swedish and Swiss citizens. If it does cost money I doubt its anywhere near what we pay. And the healthcare is super cheap. 100 dollars to fix a broken bone is excellent.
According to this, a broken arm in the US costs around 2,500 dollars:
http://health.costhelper.com/broken-arm.html
06:06 AM on 11/11/12 
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mazerfaka
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Sweden
Male - 25 Years Old
Everything I've read said University is free for Swedish and Swiss citizens. If it does cost money I doubt its anywhere near what we pay.

Yeah it costs! But you can loan money from the goverment to get the education! Everyone here has the right to studt what ever they want! My sister is studying to be a history/religion teacher, it's a five year education (and two extra if she want to be a professor or something).
She will be spending her life paying of the loans, since there is very few dorms or whatever connected to the school so she needs money for an apartment, food, internet, TV, electricity and other stuff! There are no universities here in our hometown.
07:02 AM on 11/11/12 
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browneyedbutz
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Whitehall, PA
Male - 23 Years Old
A lot of people in the US will be spending their lives paying off loans too. Our student loan debt is huge and many people default easily or take a very long time to pay it off. I'm not sure of the cost of education in Sweden but I know that the school attend in the states has increased tuition costs by around 4 or 5 percent every year for the last 4 years or so.
08:30 AM on 11/11/12 
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jawstheme
I'm not here. This isn't happening.
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Pennsylvania
Male - 29 Years Old
Yeah it costs! But you can loan money from the goverment to get the education! Everyone here has the right to studt what ever they want! My sister is studying to be a history/religion teacher, it's a five year education (and two extra if she want to be a professor or something).
She will be spending her life paying of the loans, since there is very few dorms or whatever connected to the school so she needs money for an apartment, food, internet, TV, electricity and other stuff! There are no universities here in our hometown.

I still can't find anything that says Swedish citizens pay for tuition. Seems like she is going in debt on living expenses? Does she work and go to school? I think you'd be surprised to compare the average US debt for college and the average Swedish debt.

Also I'm coming across these average 5 week vacations for jobs in Sweden. Does that seem right?
08:50 AM on 11/11/12 
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mazerfaka
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Sweden
Male - 25 Years Old
I still can't find anything that says Swedish citizens pay for tuition. Seems like she is going in debt on living expenses? Does she work and go to school? I think you'd be surprised to compare the average US debt for college and the average Swedish debt.

Also I'm coming across these average 5 week vacations for jobs in Sweden. Does that seem right?

It's not like there is a price for an education but when your studing on University you have to pay an "studying support" fee, it's 1.200 $ a month! Doesnt matter what you are studying, you have to pay that!

Yeah, every worker here has the right to four weeks vacation if you have worked full-time for one year or more so that's about right! But not all people use all their vacation, you can get "vacation money" from the goverment instead and that is 13% of what you have earned that year! (but you have to pay 35% tax on that of course!)
02:03 PM on 11/11/12 
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Roboman
Don't Mind If I Didn't
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Mering, Germany
Male - 26 Years Old
For those actually interested in how things are outside of the US and as a comparison to Sweden, I live in Germany and lose about 40% of my salary to things like taxes, social security, health insurance, etc. Income tax makes up 18 of those percent. My employer pays half of my health insurance, the other half is deducted from my salary. I had surgery on my deviated septum in May and paid a total of 40€ (10 per each day spent in the hospital). Oh yeah, and I automatically had 6 weeks of paid vacation a year upon starting my job at the ripe age of 23. I'm not sure if 6 weeks is standard for all full-time employees here, but Germans definitely make sure to use all of their vacation. During July and August it feels like some companies would be better off just shutting down temporarily due to the lack of employees available.

I think studying at most German universities is free, but here in Bavaria it costs 500€ a semester and, I kid you not, people/students have actually demonstrated in the streets against said fee.

I never had any experience as a full-time employee in the States before I moved here, but from everything I've heard about how things are there, I'm perfectly content with my decision to move.



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