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04:45 PM on 11/20/12
Craig Manning
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That article (great read by the way) reminds me of this blog post. And if any album this year has been on the receiving end of the sort of hero-posturing critical acclaim that Nosnitsky writes of here, it's Channel ORANGE.
04:46 PM on 11/20/12
ranoa513
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I just said strive for the best. But going in saying "this will be a classic" is stupid.
Most people in this thread are defining "classic" as standing the test of time (basically), or being influential, something to aspire to. I have no problem with people trying to produce something like that, even if the failure rate is astronomically high.
04:49 PM on 11/20/12
bobby runs
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And I would say Brand New's Deja, Taking Back Sunday's TAYF, Finch's WIITB and Underoath's TOCS are "scene" classics because after those albums released so many bands emulated and tried to create a record like that.

I would say that today's generation of "scene" bands are drawing more influence from classic albums of the late 90s
I agree with what you're saying here. Not in terms of these albums being the best from this "scene" but how they influenced a certain sound.

I definitely see newer bands going to the late 90s too.
04:52 PM on 11/20/12
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That article (great read by the way) reminds me of this blog post. And if any album this year has been on the receiving end of the sort of hero-posturing critical acclaim that Nosnitsky writes of here, it's Channel ORANGE.

Good article
04:56 PM on 11/20/12
bobby runs
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Mbdtf is not a "classic" and ive asked why people call it one multiple times and everyones like oh. Everyone naming all their classic albums in here negates what the article said and just adds to the detrimental consumption of popular culture
It is a classic at this point in time and will probably outlast other albums even within West's own discography.

For one the middle section of that album ("All of the Lights"-"Runaway") is one of the best I've ever heard. Every song in that sequenced is nailed perfectly. Another thing I think that makes the album a classic is that there's always something you hear when going back to it that makes it even better. 2 examples: 1)good friend told me the most underrated and overlooked verse was Raekwon's on "Gorgeous" 2)Discovering that the Chris Rock bit on "Blame Game" was who 'Ye was rapping about made me like that bit a LOT more

I also feel that it's West at his best. He took the best of his previous albums and wrapped it all together to make his best work.

Oh and I think it's the best 80 minutes in music in forever. Whenever I listen to that album it doesn't feel like a chore to listen to that much music. It never feels like 80 minutes.
04:57 PM on 11/20/12
Gaugzilla
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That article (great read by the way) reminds me of this blog post. And if any album this year has been on the receiving end of the sort of hero-posturing critical acclaim that Nosnitsky writes of here, it's Channel ORANGE.
Great read. I agree with very, very little of it.
05:00 PM on 11/20/12
Star Slight
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It is a classic at this point in time and will probably outlast other albums even within West's own discography.

For one the middle section of that album ("All of the Lights"-"Runaway") is one of the best I've ever heard. Every song in that sequenced is nailed perfectly. Another thing I think that makes the album a classic is that there's always something you hear when going back to it that makes it even better. 2 examples: 1)good friend told me the most underrated and overlooked verse was Raekwon's on "Gorgeous" 2)Discovering that the Chris Rock bit on "Blame Game" was who 'Ye was rapping about made me like that bit a LOT more

I also feel that it's West at his best. He took the best of his previous albums and wrapped it all together to make his best work.

Oh and I think it's the best 80 minutes in music in forever. Whenever I listen to that album it doesn't feel like a chore to listen to that much music. It never feels like 80 minutes.
I mean I don't disagree with it being a very good album, it was one of my favorites from 2010. And I can understand why people love it so much, it's very different from just about any other album out there. But why do people feel the need to call it a "classic" right now? Or a week after it was released? That's what I'm trying to get at. I can honestly see it becoming a classic down the line. 5-10 years after its influence has changed the rap game, which it kind've already has, I'd be more comfortable discussing the album in that context
05:04 PM on 11/20/12
Craig Manning
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Great read. I agree with very, very little of it.

Yeah, no doubt that some people genuinely adore everything on that album. But for me, it misses as much as it hits and I would like to hear a more focused and concise record from Ocean. I hope his career doesn't, as that person says, plateau in pursuit of more of the same.
05:05 PM on 11/20/12
Mirrorsandfevers
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Silent Alarm comes to mind.
05:05 PM on 11/20/12
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These are probably the two key posts that we made in the Kendrick thread, and they sum up my opinions pretty well regarding the whole "classics" thing:

I think that my problem with a lot of this is, at the risk of sounding pretentious, the relative ignorance towards the genre as a whole for newer listeners who might have just gotten into it. And I have to tread lightly here, because there is absolutely nothing wrong with just getting into the genre. It's amazing that the dynamic on this site has changed, as slightly as it has, over the past few years in regards to hip hop. More and more people are voicing their opinions and that's great. It needs all the help it can get on this site because of the negative stigma that a good amount of people (some super prominent) put on it.

With that being said, because of this newfound interest of the genre I can't really buy some of the "future classic" and "future legend" claims being made on here as well as how much hype and praise this album has gotten. Call me jaded. I see potential like everyone else, I just don't see why people are suddenly infatuated with every hip hop album being a classic and every rapper being the GOAT.

We discussed this in the hip-hop thread with the fascination with having some sort of "savior" that we both didn't buy and we got the same looks then. It seems like a call to arms: an album comes out, is hailed by every reviewer as some sort of pivotal step forward for the genre, all the fans get worked up over it, and at best it'll remain engraved in the public consciousness as some sort of standard that all hip-hop albums must meet. It's absolutely degrading to the genre. It's an unhealthy way to consume art, fuck understanding it. It breeds essentialism, elitism, messianism and anything else that prevents outsiders from potentially coming in and dissecting it and discussing it intelligently. That's absolutely dangerous; people being predicated on the idea that something like Kanye's last album is some benchmark that is only meant to be eclipsed by something even more monolithic is a dangerous way to approach art when most music in any genre that can be considered good works within established parameters defined by technique, location, lyrical style, cadence, whatever. This isn't me saying that albums of monolithic proportion and importance shouldn't be made and treated as such, but they shouldn't be treated as impregnable because it breeds the kind of discussion that goes on here almost every time an album like this drops.
05:09 PM on 11/20/12
Holly HoX!
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This is classic and it's only been out for 5 hours....

05:10 PM on 11/20/12
Gaugzilla
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Yeah, no doubt that some people genuinely adore everything on that album. But for me, it misses as much as it hits and I would like to hear a more focused and concise record from Ocean. I hope his career doesn't, as that person says, plateau in pursuit of more of the same.
Yea, well we obviously don't see eye-to-eye on that either. And I don't think there's any way that he's plateauing this early anyways. He killed it on "Nostalgia" and he did a great job on "Channel Orange." The writer wanted to make a grand prediction and she did. Complete misstep on "Pyramids." Yes, the subject's been done, but the way it was framed and produced was what made it great.
05:12 PM on 11/20/12
Star Slight
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I'd say it's hard for the artist to not plateau when their debut album is called an instant classic instantly after it was released
05:14 PM on 11/20/12
Craig Manning
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Yea, well we obviously don't see eye-to-eye on that either. And I don't think there's any way that he's plateauing this early anyways. He killed it on "Nostalgia" and he did a great job on "Channel Orange." The writer wanted to make a grand prediction and she did. Complete misstep on "Pyramids." Yes, the subject's been done, but the way it was framed and produced was what made it great.

Yeah, I like "Pyramids" a lot. But I think her point was the same as the one made in that pitchfork article, or at least a very similar one: that calling something a classic after a week and tossing a 9.5 on an album that. quite frankly, is very far from perfect, is a damaging practice. It's easy to see how an artist's growth could get stunted in pursuit of what they have been told is masterful.
05:17 PM on 11/20/12
saywhatever
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I'd say it's hard for the artist to not plateau when their debut album is called an instant classic instantly after it was released

People called Section 80 a classic after it came out, an he's done alright. But I see what you mean

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