Irrelevant news from an irrelevant news channel.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

You're willfully misinterpreting me.

Okay then, what did you mean since I misunderstood you?

Originally Posted by weworemasks

A case for Nas, hip-hop's finest MC is the headline. Whole article is about hip-hop.

Even the paragraph you quoted:

Those words were carefully chosen: "lyricist" over "rapper" or "hip-hop artist;" "greatest" instead of "most successful;" "all time" rather than "today."

Those are all referring to the genre of hip-hop and rap, terminology-wise. I don't think they were saying Nas writes better lyrics than John Lennon and Bob Dylan. The context you took it in is completely wrong, but at the same time, the context he used in his actual article is pretty inaccurate too.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

Ok? He said a lot of things ... I don't really care about those -- others can discuss that all they want. I think the statement that Nas is the greatest lyricist of all time is ridiculous ... that's the only statement I am talking about.

Pretty much what Roshan said. You can interpret it how you want, and yes the context he used it in was inaccurate as Roshan said, but his intended opinion with his statement was very, very clear.

Also, for the record I think this is a pretty shitty article, not because the premise is ridiculous but because it's poorly done. Just saying.

Originally Posted by Chris92

Okay fine, I'll accept that distinction. Are you saying there is now subjective element to what makes lyrics good or bad?

Well you could say Morrissey is the greatest lyricist of all time (not saying you think that, just a guess) or I could say Springsteen, but that's still someone arbitrarily declaring an opinion. I don't think your reaction to CNN's pronouncement was based solely upon the fact that they arbitrarily declared someone the greatest lyricist of all time with little evidence. If they had done the same thing for oh I dunno...Dylan or Lennon or somebody from the world of rock music I doubt you would have reacted like you did. If you don't agree with it, fine. But why is it so ridiculous for one to think Nas is the greatest lyricist of all time? You still haven't really answered that.

I believe, as to most literarily scholars and critics, that there is an objective element to critiquing writing.

Man, gotta love the not-so-subtle attempt to just paint me with a broad brush there. I wouldn't have had the same reaction because Dylan is a better writer than Nas, not because of the music they play - the music has little to do with the lyrical capabilities ...

I answered it with my first post.

Originally Posted by Dustin Harkins

Don't see anything wrong with this. Don't know if I'd agree, but it's not that ridiculous of a claim.

EDIT: Glad they cleared this up...
"While commercial success is important to the equation -- and the sole reason the brilliant Talib Kweli and Pharoahe Monch aren't included in the debate -- it's only one variable."
...since in rap Pharoahe Monch would probably be my pick.

yeah nas isnt a ridiculous claim at all

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

There is no such "in hip-hop" attachement to this statement.

Yes, but seeing that Absolutepunk holds no weight and carries no credibility in hip-hop culture whatsoever, you mocking CNN's claim that a rapper is the best lyricist of all time also holds no weight and no credibility. If they were to have named Morrisey the best lyricist of all time and you mocked that, then sure it may have some sort of significance, but reporting this news report is the equivalent to HipHopDX posting a mocking news article saying "CNN names Lou Reed the best lyricist of all time" in a mocking fashion. Them doing such a thing would be irrelevant because A) CNN is entitled to make whatever claim they want and B) Since HipHopDX isn't an authority of the genre of music, they really aren't in a place to argue that an artist from that genre is being declared the best lyricist of all time for music in general.

Originally Posted by Dustin Harkins

Pretty much what Roshan said. You can interpret it how you want, and yes the context he used it in was inaccurate as Roshan said, but his intended opinion with his statement was very, very clear.

If it was so clear ... he should have added the caveat in the sentence.

... is the greatest lyricist of all time - PERIOD.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

I believe, as to most literarily scholars and critics, that there is an objective element to critiquing writing.

Man, gotta love the not-so-subtle attempt to just paint me with a broad brush there. I wouldn't have had the same reaction because Dylan is a better writer than Nas, not because of the music they play - the music has little to do with the lyrical capabilities ...

I answered it with my first post.

Well yes, there is an obvious objective element to critiquing writing I agree with you. But do you disagree that there is also a subjective element? Because if so, we're just not going to agree about this and we can carry on, and that's fine.

I wasn't trying to pigeonhole your tastes so I apologize if it came off like that. I know you listen to a wide variety of music, I just picked an artist I knew was one of your favorites as an example, and then one of my personal favorites, and then two who people who "know about this stuff" (aka RS, Christgau, etc.) would often point to as examples of top-notch lyricism.

Originally Posted by Chris92

Okay then, what did you mean since I misunderstood you?

Exactly what I said: there is no such "in hip-hop" attachement to this statement.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

Exactly what I said: there is no such "in hip-hop" attachement to this statement.

I took that one out of context, my bad. I get what you meant by that now.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

If it was so clear ... he should have added the caveat in the sentence.

... is the greatest lyricist of all time - PERIOD.

It was clear thanks to the bold headline at the top of the article (which Roshan already pointed out).

Notice who added the " - PERIOD". Not the author of the article but your own interpretation of it.

This is the same thing you complain about people doing about news posted on Absolutepunk yet now you're doing it, haha.

Originally Posted by CS Lewis

Yes, but seeing that Absolutepunk holds no weight and carries no credibility in hip-hop culture whatsoever, you mocking CNN's claim that a rapper is the best lyricist of all time also holds no weight and no credibility.

What's this have to do with hip-hop? My commentary is about music in general ... and you can decide for yourself if my thoughts on music and lyrics in general have credibility. Yeah, I think Dylan and Springsteen are better lyricists than Nas. That's a commentary on the lyrics in general, not hip-hop specific.

Quote:

If they were to have named Morrisey the best lyricist of all time and you mocked that, then sure it may have some sort of significance, but reporting this news report is the equivalent to HipHopDX posting a mocking news article saying "CNN names Lou Reed the best lyricist of all time" in a mocking fashion.

They can do that if they want.

Originally Posted by Dustin Harkins

It was clear thanks to the bold headline at the top of the article (which Roshan already pointed out).

Notice who added the " - PERIOD". Not the author of the article but your own interpretation of it.

This is the same thing you complain about people doing about news posted on Absolutepunk yet now you're doing it, haha.

Uh ... that looks like a "." to me ... I just spelled it out to call attention to it. The author definitely added the period.



It's still right there.

Jason, I'd also be genuinely curious to know (completely external to this discussion) who your favorite lyricists in general and hip-hop lyricists actually are.