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03:21 PM on 02/18/11 
#1
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caveBEAR
( ω )
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Tallahassee, FL
Male - 27 Years Old
Seems like not a lot of people here really have a great grasp on the Wisconsin situation, so let's get a discussion going, preferably with some sources so everyone can educate themselves a bit. (I'm at work or I'd set up a few starter sources myself...sorry guys)

This is a big issue, and this thread should never once end up below the 'Should We Buy Mexico' thread for more than 30 minutes.
03:24 PM on 02/18/11 
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GuitarR0cker1
things mean a lot at the time
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Portland, Oregon
Male - 20 Years Old
For all of the myriad reasons why unions are fighting so hard in Wisconsin this is one of them:
Quote:
The reason state workers are so outraged by Walker's actions, Kind said, is because they spent all last year negotiating and making $100 million in concessions with then-Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle only to have Republicans state legislators kill that bill then have a new governor come in and deny their negotiating rights.
"[Walker] didn't even come back and sit down with them," Kind told TPM. "Public employees are willing to contribute their pound of flesh. He wasn't even willing to talk to the teacher unions despite 17 separate requests from them for meetings with him."
Baldwin, who said she had been talking to Democratic state legislators throughout the last week, would not say exactly where all the lawmakers are holing up, or how long they plan to be there.
"They are committed to staying as long as they have to and doing what they have to do to slow this process down and protect the rights of state workers," she said.
03:40 PM on 02/18/11 
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saysmydoctor
Resident New Yorker
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Albany NY
Male - 24 Years Old
Tennessee Republicans are introducing similar legislation.

Nothing like creating jobs by attacking the rights of the worker. Unions do the work no one appreciates and they get scapegoated when things go south. This whole scenario is completely disgusting, the Republicans who back this measure should be ashamed of themselves.
03:44 PM on 02/18/11 
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David87
That guy
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Delaware
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Unions are not completely innocent....but what the Wisconsin government is trying to do is disgusting.
03:52 PM on 02/18/11 
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JuneJuly
Allez l'OL
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Duluth, MN
Male - 22 Years Old
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...F9Nkaw&cad=rja

^^ Those were being handed out at the protests yesterday.
03:53 PM on 02/18/11 
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caveBEAR
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Tallahassee, FL
Male - 27 Years Old
I think it's badass the Democrats are hiding out to stop the legislation. Didn't think most Democrats even had enough spine to hide.
04:02 PM on 02/18/11 
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Love As Arson
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The Motherland
Male - 29 Years Old
http://wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/pers-f18.shtml
04:15 PM on 02/18/11 
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crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
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Gladstone, MO
Male - 26 Years Old
Governor Walker says the protestors had a chance to have their say last December, and chose not to.

Silly protestors, you should've negotiated with the Governor before he was the Governor. Duh.
04:49 PM on 02/18/11 
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thepianominstre
@joshuahedlund
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Just west of STL
Male - 26 Years Old
I will never forgive the grocer's union for stealing my wages when I worked at Schnucks two days a week during college and stripping my net income to a below-minimum wage of less than $5 an hour (cuz I SO wouldn't have been making that much without them). I will also never forgive the unions for demanding (and receiving!) special exemptions on health care reform once they realized that the progressive taxes would include their expensive health care plans. However I will applaud unions for creating a paid vacation, 40-hour work environment because those things never would have happened without them... seriously, maybe they wouldn't have.

But anyway.

It sounds like the governor is being pretty douche-y but the Democrats running away only makes them look like heroes to their choir. Remember Obama and "I won" and how none of the Republicans in Congress ran away to avoid voting against something that was going to pass? Didn't the Wisconsin people vote this proportion of legislature in? My Republican friends think it's ironic that the threat of federal government shutting down due to frustrated Republicans is considered a bad thing, but Wisconsin government shutting down due to frustrated Democrats is considered an awesome thing.

Now reality is complicated enough and I'm enough aware of my own biases that I'm perfectly willing to let in some facts that put all the blame back in the Republican camp.... if you've got 'em. But it kinda sounds like both sides are just bickering all over the place... and that maybe those Democrats are being at least as bad of sore losers as some Republicans have been for the last two years..
04:53 PM on 02/18/11 
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crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
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Gladstone, MO
Male - 26 Years Old
I will never forgive the grocer's union for stealing my wages when I worked at Schnucks two days a week during college and stripping my net income to a below-minimum wage of less than $5 an hour (cuz I SO wouldn't have been making that much without them). I will also never forgive the unions for demanding (and receiving!) special exemptions on health care reform once they realized that the progressive taxes would include their expensive health care plans. However I will applaud unions for creating a paid vacation, 40-hour work environment because those things never would have happened without them... seriously, maybe they wouldn't have.

But anyway.

It sounds like the governor is being pretty douche-y but the Democrats running away only makes them look like heroes to their choir. Remember Obama and "I won" and how none of the Republicans in Congress ran away to avoid voting against something that was going to pass? Didn't the Wisconsin people vote this proportion of legislature in? My Republican friends think it's ironic that the threat of federal government shutting down due to frustrated Republicans is considered a bad thing, but Wisconsin government shutting down due to frustrated Democrats is considered an awesome thing.

Now reality is complicated enough and I'm enough aware of my own biases that I'm perfectly willing to let in some facts that put all the blame back in the Republican camp.... if you've got 'em. But it kinda sounds like both sides are just bickering all over the place... and that maybe those Democrats are being at least as bad of sore losers as some Republicans have been for the last two years..

You had me until "Wisconsin government shutting down." What happens in Wisconsin is that one bill won't get a vote. If the US government shuts down, A LOT more than that is going to happen.
05:05 PM on 02/18/11 
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wroteurname
Registered Loser
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ROCKville, CT
Male - 27 Years Old
I mean, you can pay more for insurance or you could get laid off.
05:08 PM on 02/18/11 
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apoemtothedead
ppppppppttttttttt.
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TX
Male - 27 Years Old
I will never forgive the grocer's union for stealing my wages when I worked at Schnucks two days a week during college and stripping my net income to a below-minimum wage of less than $5 an hour (cuz I SO wouldn't have been making that much without them). I will also never forgive the unions for demanding (and receiving!) special exemptions on health care reform once they realized that the progressive taxes would include their expensive health care plans. However I will applaud unions for creating a paid vacation, 40-hour work environment because those things never would have happened without them... seriously, maybe they wouldn't have.

But anyway.

It sounds like the governor is being pretty douche-y but the Democrats running away only makes them look like heroes to their choir. Remember Obama and "I won" and how none of the Republicans in Congress ran away to avoid voting against something that was going to pass? Didn't the Wisconsin people vote this proportion of legislature in? My Republican friends think it's ironic that the threat of federal government shutting down due to frustrated Republicans is considered a bad thing, but Wisconsin government shutting down due to frustrated Democrats is considered an awesome thing.

Now reality is complicated enough and I'm enough aware of my own biases that I'm perfectly willing to let in some facts that put all the blame back in the Republican camp.... if you've got 'em. But it kinda sounds like both sides are just bickering all over the place... and that maybe those Democrats are being at least as bad of sore losers as some Republicans have been for the last two years..
Republicans in Congress ran away from almost every vote with use of the Filibuster.
05:20 PM on 02/18/11 
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JuneJuly
Allez l'OL
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Duluth, MN
Male - 22 Years Old
Someone on my Facebook posted that it's expected that there going be 60,000 protesters protesting the protesters in Madison tomorrow. He didn't have any information to back up his post and I find that number a little fishy. I know that Scott Walker has come out and said that's how many people he wants to come out but I seriously doubt they can mobilize that fast. Or that they could have that large of a turnout, period.

Anyone have any links or info on this?
05:24 PM on 02/18/11 
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J.C.
adorkable
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New Haven, CT
ya boy - 28 Years Old
It's amusing to see this passed off as an honest attempt to balance the budget and not Republicans seizing an opportunity to crack down on union power.
05:38 PM on 02/18/11 
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Machu505
yep
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New Haven CT
Male - 19 Years Old
It's incredible that the Democrats fled the state to stop this bill, and it's damn good they did. Ridiculous measures like this one shouldn't be considered.



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