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I don't understand why people would get upset with an artist for this type of reaction to pirating. I also don't get why people think it's okay to illegally download music and justify it by saying that bands "make all their money from touring anyway..." If you want something pay for it. He's got every right to be pissed as do all artists. You people pay $10 to see a movie once in theatres but you can't pay the same ten bucks to buy an album you'll listen to 50 times? If internet piracy was eliminated, bands like Norma Jean would be selling upwards of 500k copies per album on the low end (thats roughly 5-10 million dllars generated by the band which would help them and their labels) You're not stealing money from faceless corporations when you download illegal music by bands signed to all these indie labels, you're stealing from a record label that probably only employs 50 people and it is a big deal...

I get pissed about this topic because I know there are a number of bands that we all like that have broken up because they didn't feel like there is any money to be made in music anymore. Remember when a guy could start a family and still be a professional musician? That does not seem to be the case any longer for most and it's pretty sad. All because these kids with no jobs have to fill up a terabyte hard drive that their parents bought them with more music than they can ever listen to.

Couldn't have said it better!

Originally Posted by gregplaysdrums

So has anyone made the joke yet that Botch and Coalesce should be talking to Norma Jean when it comes to stealing music?


And yes, I know NJ doesn't really sound the same anymore.

Handful of botch jokes in huuuure

Does this fuck realize that half of the people who downloaded his shitty band's music probably ended up buying tickets and merch from him later on? And they probably never would have if they didn't download the music in the first place?

Originally Posted by Kurt Retenauer

I tend to be overly optimistic, but I really do think low record sales are obviously attributed to piracy being more convenient..but if artists can find a way to make purchasing more convenient, I think people would buy. Also, make the product more "unique," work harder to deliver your fans exclusive offers and such.. that's how you sell. Salesman don't do well from a desk, but drive door to door for businesses and show you're all about the "personal" delivery and such, and you'll sell.

True and this is twofold. You have to make a product worth buying but hosting sites aren't going to get taken down anytime soon. Far too many loopholes they can function through.

Originally Posted by popdisaster00

Does this fuck realize that half of the people who downloaded his shitty band's music probably ended up buying tickets and merch from him later on? And they probably never would have if they didn't download the music in the first place?

That point had been brought up and it's a valid one if you ask me.

Originally Posted by popdisaster00

Does this fuck realize that half of the people who downloaded his shitty band's music probably ended up buying tickets and merch from him later on? And they probably never would have if they didn't download the music in the first place?

probably not, he's too busy worrying about where his money is, that his fans owe him.

Originally Posted by Daveyhavok832

I missed the part in the Bible when Jesus went around building bookshelves and tables for people for free...

and what about "when someone slaps you on the right side of your face, turn and offer him your left"? This dude will regret this statement soon enough.

This guys retarded. If you're looking to make money then you're obviously in the wrong industry. I'd make music because I love to, not because I'm looking for a paycheck. I'd write and release a record because I want people to hear my artwork and maybe come out to a show or something, and if they don't then oh well. His band is complete shit anyway, they've been around for years and they're still opening for bands that have only been around for two years. Maybe if he made better music then people would be more compelled to buy his music. He needs to realize that he's losing money because he's bands releasing the same old boring bullshit that's been around for years, so instead of whining about people stealing his music he should step back and realize he's in a terrible band and is making music for all the wrong reasons.

He needs to calm down. I've downloaded every NJ album and I don't owe him anything. Seeing them live 3 times is enough.

I don't have money to purchase every single album I listen to, nor do I think every album I listen to is worthy of a purchase. If the technology's there, use it. Any band that's with the times should know that merch and touring is where any money is these days. And I've gladly supported NJ on both those levels.

way to come off like a total dickhead...there are plenty of other bands who are adapting to the demand of music from other mediums and doing just fine.

Just because your second or third tier band is losing money because it's own fanbase is too poor to purchase your close to mediocre record doesn't mean you have to publicly berate them.

Awesome fuckin' entrepreneurial ingenuity Norma Jean. Sounds like someone doesn't have enough money to finish their Christmas shopping. Grow the fuck up and get a job at a pet store instead.

Originally Posted by popdisaster00

Does this fuck realize that half of the people who downloaded his shitty band's music probably ended up buying tickets and merch from him later on? And they probably never would have if they didn't download the music in the first place?

I don't really get how that validates anything. Assuming they still owe their record label money for the recording process, maybe tour advances, probably money on printing the shirts ... 1/2 of the people going to shows and buying merch probably doesn't translate to much in the first place. Let alone make it okay to just take their music. There's a bunch of analogies I could use ... but it's like buying the whip-cream on a stolen coffee and thinking you're good to go (since I'm drinking coffee at the moment).

My take, like always, is that it should the artist's choice. He's made his stance clear about his music. Cool. Other artists are fine with downloading. Download theirs. Don't listen to his. Or buy it if you want it. Should be his call, and fans should respect that. I know they won't ... but I think they should.

Sidebar: The way he made his argument was awful. Just awful. Could have worded that way better, and actually gotten through to some people.

Originally Posted by Holly HoX!

1000+ albums x approx $10 a pop = holy shit bro how many banks have you robbed?

I've been working for 10 years so I've made roughly 200k in my lifetime. Not to mention 30 cd's a year between birthday and Christmas. Also I have a lot of band camp free releases. The real value is in those clearance sales where record labels sell you like 50 albums for $100 bucks. I'm sure my cd collection would average out to more like 7 bucks per album because of all the deals I've gotten. So I have spent maybe 14k on cd's in my life which isn't too bad. Roughly 7% of my income.

A) I wouldn't listen to Norma Jean if THEY paid ME.
B) This guy epitomizes "out of touch"
C) I just want to bang my head against a wall until I know he doesn't exist anymore.

All I'm going to say is that Louis CK made over a million dollars by selling his hour long special for five dollars straight from his website...
He said he would have made thirty thousand if someone entertainment company sponsored and produced it.
You don't make a significant living playing music unless you're playing arena shows half the year and selling chart topping records.
Musicians in this scene have always and will always make more money on tours (especially if the label doesn't take a cut of that; Rise is a label that doesn't take any profit on tour merch/money).

Originally Posted by Mr.Piano93

and what about "when someone slaps you on the right side of your face, turn and offer him your left"? This dude will regret this statement soon enough.

This is not a Bible discussion but that quote in no way pertains to this discussion or what I said...