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11:01 AM on 01/06/12 
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Simulcast
No More Gold Lights
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Santa Barbara, CA
Male - 27 Years Old
We've been talking about the second amendment. You have yet to illustrate how the second amendment is vital to and capable of keeping the United States government in check. How does the shotgun in your closet practically and effectively combat the vast militaristic capabilities of the United States?

So first let's begin by laying out what can be accessed legally by U.S. citizens. All manner of machine guns, sub-machine guns, and sniper rifles, including the .50 caliber Barrett (It can punch through tank armor). While automatic weapons aren't allowed, most if not all of these guns can be easily modified to be fully automatic. Military-grade scopes and other accessories can easily be purchased as well. Your ridiculous notion of shotguns vs. the U.S. army is shortsighted and naive. Citizens are able to arm themselves fairly well in this country.

Now that that has been established, let's remember that explosives can also be produced privately and distributed for use. Remember how shaped charges tore apart our M1's in Iraq? The same thing would occur in a conflict over here. Molotov's aren't difficult to make and can take out any unarmored personnel carrier and a whole host of troops. Great, so now the citizenry has explosive tech as well.

Anyways, back to the point. Armed citizens, with the manner of weapons I've laid out, are capable of protecting and defending themselves to a great degree. Most assault rifle rounds can punch through body armor and render vehicles inoperable. Read Black Hawk Down and you'll be shocked to see how much damage these weapons can do, even in the hands of poorly trained Somalis. Armed groups are also capable of raiding U.S. armories, which are not as well protected as one might think, for supplies and weaponry.

The very fact that citizens have at least some way of fighting back is an important point if a country-wide conflict were to break out. Again, the government's vast arsenal is not as important as you would like it to be. The military would not be able to roll up and flatten a city with bombs and artillery to stamp out an uprising, not without incurring the wrath of the rest of the country. America is not the Soviet Union, and plenty of people here don't particularly care for the government as much as you do. The fighting would be up close and personal, and in many cases civilian arms would match military arms. It would be bloody and the army would suffer heavy losses, as nearly every army in history has when fighting this type of battle. As someone mentioned earlier, the citizens wouldn't even need to win any battles to achieve their goals. The VC lost nearly every major engagement they had with us, and yet still prevailed at the end of the war.
11:10 AM on 01/06/12 
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Buster Bluth
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Forreal Buster Bluth you had a whole host of bumbling candidates (see: rick perry) to use and you picked the most articulate one haha

That wasn't my point. Gingrich is a good debater in the sense that he's able to make himself sound intelligent when he's trying to argue in favor an idiotic idea.
11:18 AM on 01/06/12 
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Buster Bluth
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What AT ALL didn't make sense about his post?

I think the "apples to oranges" thing was already pointed out. We've been discussing the validity of the second amendment, and he starts going on about weapons smuggling into Mexico. The point isn't even valid, because lacking sufficient gun control in America would only make the situation in Mexico worse.

Also, the idea that the government needs to "regulate" itself seems nonsensical as well.
11:19 AM on 01/06/12 
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birdman
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That wasn't my point. Gingrich is a good debater in the sense that he's able to make himself sound intelligent when he's trying to argue in favor an idiotic idea.

Gingrich is incredibly intelligent. You are the fact that you disagree with his ideas with him being stupid.
11:22 AM on 01/06/12 
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Simulcast
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Gingrich is incredibly intelligent. You are the fact that you disagree with his ideas with him being stupid.

The guy has 19 years of accumulated knowledge under his belt. What's Gingrich got? Answer that one.
11:22 AM on 01/06/12 
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birdman
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I think the "apples to oranges" thing was already pointed out. We've been discussing the validity of the second amendment, and he starts going on about weapons smuggling into Mexico. The point isn't even valid, because lacking sufficient gun control in America would only make the situation in Mexico worse.

Also, the idea that the government needs to "regulate" itself seems nonsensical as well.

Hahaha.
11:23 AM on 01/06/12 
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birdman
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The guy has 19 years of accumulated knowledge under his belt. What's Gingrich got? Answer that one.

Seriously, this guy has a level of narcissism and arrogance that only a 19 year old liberal could have.
11:35 AM on 01/06/12 
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georgedcc
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Gingrich is incredibly intelligent. You are the fact that you disagree with his ideas with him being stupid.

I stared at that sentence for a few minutes and I still have no idea what it means ha.
11:37 AM on 01/06/12 
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caveBEAR
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Palm Coast, FL
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Everyone should stop with the name calling crap. Liberals and Conservatives have two different ways of looking at things, neither are wrong or right, they are just different. The media and the politicians have created this system that polarizes us and makes us hate each other for believing in different ideals.

For example, I am conservative that believes in the rights of gays to marry and women to abort unwanted pregnancies in a safe environment. I believe in providing care to those who physically and mentally cannot take care of themselves. There are many liberal beliefs I have, and I have voted for Democrats before, but I consider myself a conservative.

The problem is that the way we are all acting, there is no way we are ever going to get a reasonable, well intentioned leader in the White House. Can all of you liberals honestly tell me that everything that conservatives generally believe is wrong? And can the conservatives on the board say that liberals are wrong about everything? Surely there is a reasonable middle ground.

But we are going to continue to get a politically motivated government as long as we keep this polarization up.

....

Seriously, this guy has a level of narcissism and arrogance that only a 19 year old liberal could have.
11:40 AM on 01/06/12 
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birdman
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I stared at that sentence for a few minutes and I still have no idea what it means ha.

Disagreeing with Newt Gingrich =/= Newt Gingrich is stupid.
11:40 AM on 01/06/12 
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birdman
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Touche, I apologize.

EDIT: To be fair though is there anyone on this board that gets insults thrown at them more than I do?
11:41 AM on 01/06/12 
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georgedcc
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In-ger-lund / Cymru
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Disagreeing with Newt Gingrich =/= Newt Gingrich is stupid.

Ha yeah, I got the gist of it, but I don't think as a sentence this makes any sense: "You are the fact that you disagree with his ideas with him being stupid."

I'm just being petty, I agree with your general point.
11:44 AM on 01/06/12 
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birdman
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Ha yeah, I got the gist of it, but I don't think as a sentence this makes any sense: "You are the fact that you disagree with his ideas with him being stupid."

I'm just being petty, I agree with your general point.

Oh, i meant to put "you are CONFUSING that fact that..."
11:50 AM on 01/06/12 
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caveBEAR
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Palm Coast, FL
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Touche, I apologize.

EDIT: To be fair though is there anyone on this board that gets insults thrown at them more than I do?

Zion, maybe. 'Turn the other cheek' and all that, though.
11:52 AM on 01/06/12 
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mattyrocks
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haha yeah zion gets it bad.



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