Originally Posted by sammyboy516

Its not my opinion. It's ridiculous to even try to compare the "bigotry" towards religious people in this thread to homophobia, sexism or racism. Especially when religion is actually responsible for a substantial portion of the worlds intolerance in the first place.

I love Anthem Song and the live EP isn't bad either.

Originally Posted by Kurt Retenauer

So, if you believe in a religion, it's totally okay to be attacked by the "enlightened" folk, be insulted, have Rick Santorum cited as a speaker for all religions.. and those people, for some reason, are any different than the religious folk who "shove beliefs down people's throats?" In my opinion, it's worse. A religious person trying to offer the greatest gift- God, to someone, versus a person attacking the very framework of another person's life..and somehow the former is worse than the latter? Doesn't make sense.

If worship music isn't for you, then that's fine. But don't be upset that Underoath can't pull it without Aaron. He's doing what he loves to do, and what he was called by God to do, whether you believe in God or not.

Kurt, I like you and I like this post. And your other ones in this thread.

Originally Posted by oh josh

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

who's the one with the head up their ass? maybe you need a good lesson on free thinking.

I think saying things up the alley of "no religious people are free thinkers" or "being non religious means you're smarter than people who are religious" is not very "free thinking". It's kind of along the way of saying "you're not punk rock because you don't dress like the other punks", the concept of punk rock and free thinking are about independence, not about conforming to a pseudo individuality. I also disagree with your insertion that Christianity is a choice, or whatever anyone believes for that matter... If you're an athiest, you didn't choose to be, you just happen to see the logic behind that point of view. Some who is truly religious, doesn't really choose to be...they can choose how they live their life, but you don't choose how your mind decifers fact and fiction. I know lots of people who claim to be christians, as well as of other religions who are of that belief for actually logical reasons. Is it a logic I disagree with, most often yes, but just because it isn't my logic, doesn't mean it's "stupid".
With all that said, I think a lot of arguments people seem to be giving you are weak, and likely mine will be chalked up in that category too.

Originally Posted by Holly HoX!

The fact that people settle for Aaron's music when they could be listening to Sufjan Stevens' records is beyond me.

This is by far the best post in this thread.

I read through this thread this evening, then just now Stumbled on this page, which I think sums things up nicely-

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/politi...-ethics-comic/

Great thread! Would read again.

My favorite part was when Jason shut down that Nolessthanblink dude. Good times.

Originally Posted by CurtisFFI

Holy shit. No pun intended.

ok, there is no way that you can blame religion, let alone christianity, for justin bieber. uncalled for.

Originally Posted by Nick Le

Kurt, I like you and I like this post. And your other ones in this thread.

Thanks man

Just trying to give my two cents in an appropriate fashion and not ridicule anyone for their beliefs/non-beliefs. I know how God works in my life and that my relationship with Christ makes me a better person, and I know most other Christians will say the same.

I don't really listen to Aaron anymore, but I think anyone pissed at him for having a love for Jesus should be ashamed of themselves. Learn to be accepting of someone else's religion. Doesn't make someone a "freak" or anything. UnderOath was Christian as well, so what if he wants to go more into worship and praise music? Find a new band.

Originally Posted by jessicalynn-xx

Actually it is.

Are you a straight up douche? Why is it your right to shit on anyone with differing views from you? That's like calling a black person the N-word or a homosexual a derogatory term. Stop being so ignorant towards others for being different from you.

Originally Posted by ParkwayTom

"I completely support free thinking unless I don't agree with what you're thinking!"

How fucking stupid are you? Did you even think about that before you posted it?

Dude, if you put you're opinion or belief out in a public forum like a message board, don't be upset if someone debates you. I'm not weighing in on this whole thing but if Christians really want some respect they should engage in a debate about their faith. Instead it usually is a kneekerk reaction like yours that says "you Athiest guys are all assholes for trying to have a debate, let me promote a thing that others have big issues with and they better not debate it or say anything!" A lot of people attribute most of the homophobia in this country with Leviticus 20:13 that most Christians openly embrace, and at the very least most of them say I have no problem with it but they just can't get married or go to heaven. Stop pretending your faith isn't controversial and at least be willing to defend/debate it. You seem like a smart dude who probably could do a pretty good job.

Hardcore music has a place for Jesus too. Rebel in the name of the lord

Originally Posted by Nowisnotthetime

Dude, if you put you're opinion or belief out in a public forum like a message board, don't be upset if someone debates you. I'm not weighing in on this whole thing but if Christians really want some respect they should engage in a debate about their faith. Instead it usually is a kneekerk reaction like yours that says "you Athiest guys are all assholes for trying to have a debate, let me promote a thing that others have big issues with and they better not debate it or say anything!" A lot of people attribute most of the homophobia in this country with Leviticus 20:13 that most Christians openly embrace, and at the very least most of them say I have no problem with it but they just can't get married or go to heaven. Stop pretending your faith isn't controversial and at least be willing to defend/debate it. You seem like a smart dude who probably could do a pretty good job.

Uh, I've been done with thread for a while dude. But my problem had nothing to do with my religion being attacked. In threads like these, nobody that does have a religion brings religion up, which is great. My problem is that its always a condescending dickhead that feels the need to insult everybody in the thread by saying something usually like "how anyone could be fucking stupid enough to let religion control them is beyond me. Fuck religion and anyone who believes in it." People spewing out what basically passes for bigotry when there was ABSOLUTELY no reason to bring religion up, especially in the fashion they did: that's my problem. You've seen that plenty of times- I know I have. So then, when religious people do tell them to GTFO, they usually act like they're getting ganged up on and just spew even more ignorant, condescending bullshit. Of course they mask it with shit about thinking for yourself, but its really just another form of intolerance and elitism. I don't think that the world needs any more of that.

So who's the bad guy? The person that just showed up to comment on the album being released (keeping their faith out of it, cause it has no bearing on the discussion), or the person that insults everyone's personal beliefs because they want to feel superior. There's a difference between a debate (which was not the point of this thread at the beginning), and borderline hate speech. And my faith isn't controversial until some dick decides to start belittling it and me for subscribing to it. I don't see why people can't just mind their own business. I have my own religion and I'm completely tolerant of other people having theirs, or none at all. I feel like that should be the norm, not people showing up to harrass others that don't share the same viewpoint (which, by the way, does not pass for debate in my book).

Originally Posted by Nowisnotthetime

Dude, if you put you're opinion or belief out in a public forum like a message board, don't be upset if someone debates you. I'm not weighing in on this whole thing but if Christians really want some respect they should engage in a debate about their faith. Instead it usually is a kneekerk reaction like yours that says "you Athiest guys are all assholes for trying to have a debate, let me promote a thing that others have big issues with and they better not debate it or say anything!" A lot of people attribute most of the homophobia in this country with Leviticus 20:13 that most Christians openly embrace, and at the very least most of them say I have no problem with it but they just can't get married or go to heaven. Stop pretending your faith isn't controversial and at least be willing to defend/debate it. You seem like a smart dude who probably could do a pretty good job.

Nothing in the Christian faith says that homosexuals cannot go into heaven (at least in Catholicism).

The only controversial thing about the religion is that they don't believe homosexuals should marry due to the entire sacrament of marriage being based around the union of man and woman to create children.

Basically, homosexual marriage just goes against the Christians' definition of marriage. It's just contradictory to allow marriage in the church, under that religion.