I just know that Bone Pallace Ballet is far better than Illuminaudio and DRUGS s/t. That is my stance here.

Wrong. Craig Owens is quitting DRUGS to continue Cinematic Sunrise full time. Duh.

Great piece though. It is wierd how people follow frontmen around through different bands and expect them to produce the same sound in each, as if the rest of the band has no songwriting and lyrical input at all. Im down for whatever Craig Owens does or doesnt do.

Stop making me love you Adam.

Anthony Green. Saosin. Translating The Name.

I commented on the actual piece, but I'm curious to see if people share or reject my views on this, so I'll throw it here as well.

"Where does the subjective fault lie, in the band or in our degree of never letting go of a moment that many of us have sort of grown out of, but some will never admit and others will forever deny."

In many cases, I blame the fans. Far too often fans succumb to their nostalgia, begging for a "return to form" or an original line-up when the bands have far surpassed their beginnings. When As Cities Burn played SILYAYD recently, Lunsford laughed and talked about how the hardest part was teaching himself to "be a bad drummer" again. So many of the bands we cling to were so raw when the started, a quality I can appreciate, but don't care to hear more than once per band - so why ask bands to emulate their pasts?

However, there are times when the band is at fault, with Taking Back Sunday and Dance Gavin Dance as the prime examples.

We all love Tell All Your Friends, but it seems we've all forgotten what the Fred-era did for the band. There was clear and obvious growth on WYWTB and Louder Now, especially in the composition. In the TBS Oral History from AltPress, their manager mentioned how Fred played such a huge roll in the songwriting and that no band member could refute his ideas, because Fred always had musical theory backing his suggestions. I attribute a huge part of the musical growth to Fred, and it's safe to assume Rubano played an important role as well. It was the height of TBS' popularity, and I don't believe that to be a coincidence.

Though I'm a huge fan of him as a musician, obviously something didn't click during the Fazzi-era. So the band opted to go back to the original line-up. The result was, in my opinion, a step backwards. The band went the safe route, and created an album I rarely play. There's nothing innovative about it.

No need for the lengthy explanation of DGD's missteps. They had a good thing going with Kurt and Garren, experimenting their asses off on Happiness, yet decided to pick up the snake known as Jonny. Now the guy has left them in the lurch for the millionth time, effectively ending what was a fairly popular band.

And yeah, I think Illuminaudio is easily Chiodos' best.

I just want more music from chiodos. Its been too long.

Originally Posted by irthesteve

I just know that Bone Pallace Ballet is far better than Illuminaudio and DRUGS s/t. That is my stance here.

I back this hard; sales prove it too (even if it was sceney weenies buying the record)

Originally Posted by Jack Appleby

I commented on the actual piece, but I'm curious to see if people share or reject my views on this, so I'll throw it here as well.

"Where does the subjective fault lie, in the band or in our degree of never letting go of a moment that many of us have sort of grown out of, but some will never admit and others will forever deny."

In many cases, I blame the fans. Far too often fans succumb to their nostalgia, begging for a "return to form" or an original line-up when the bands have far surpassed their beginnings. When As Cities Burn played SILYAYD recently, Lunsford laughed and talked about how the hardest part was teaching himself to "be a bad drummer" again. So many of the bands we cling to were so raw when the started, a quality I can appreciate, but don't care to hear more than once per band - so why ask bands to emulate their pasts?

However, there are times when the band is at fault, with Taking Back Sunday and Dance Gavin Dance as the prime examples.

We all love Tell All Your Friends, but it seems we've all forgotten what the Fred-era did for the band. There was clear and obvious growth on WYWTB and Louder Now, especially in the composition. In the TBS Oral History from AltPress, their manager mentioned how Fred played such a huge roll in the songwriting and that no band member could refute his ideas, because Fred always had musical theory backing his suggestions. I attribute a huge part of the musical growth to Fred, and it's safe to assume Rubano played an important role as well. It was the height of TBS' popularity, and I don't believe that to be a coincidence.

Though I'm a huge fan of him as a musician, obviously something didn't click during the Fazzi-era. So the band opted to go back to the original line-up. The result was, in my opinion, a step backwards. The band went the safe route, and created an album I rarely play. There's nothing innovative about it.

No need for the lengthy explanation of DGD's missteps. They had a good thing going with Kurt and Garren, experimenting their asses of on Happiness, yet decided to pick up the snake known as Jonny. Now the guy has left them in the lurch for the millionth time, effectively ending what was a fairly popular band.

And yeah, I think Illuminaudio is easily Chiodos' best.

Lots of great points that most I agree with but I would love for someone to point out to me why people find Happiness to be DGD's "most experimental" CD. To me it clearly stands out as their most stripped down album with the least amount going on.

As well, I think people need to consider outside this site/similar mediums. If you went to a DGD show I guarantee that the majority of the audience would want to hear things off the the first DBM and songs with Jonny rather than any of Kurt's stuff. This logic applies to many other bands as well. The 'underdogs' are often praised here but the truth is the crowd just doesn't give a shit.

Originally Posted by WeltallAY

Lots of great points that most I agree with but I would love for someone to point out to me why people find Happiness to be DGD's "most experimental" CD. To me it clearly stands out as their most stripped down album with the least amount going on.

DBM1 and Deathstar are pretty much straight post-hardcore records. On Happiness, there was a lot more funk and other influences, especially through the guitars. Even by your own definition of "stripped down," that would make it far different than the other albums, no?

Originally Posted by Jack Appleby

DBM1 and Deathstar are pretty much straight post-hardcore records. On Happiness, there was a lot more funk and other influences, especially through the guitars. Even by your own definition of "stripped down," that would make it far different than the other albums, no?

True, I guess I typically associate experimental with more complex instrumentation which is shown on the other albums.

Originally Posted by WeltallAY

True, I guess I typically associate experimental with more complex instrumentation which is shown on the other albums.

Yeah, I hear ya. They just really tried some new things on Happiness, then got back the original crew and totally phoned in DBM2.

I just took the time to read this and i just wanted to say it was a really good read.

Originally Posted by Jack Appleby

Yeah, I hear ya. They just really tried some new things on Happiness, then got back the original crew and totally phoned in DBM2.

This exactly, I think Death Star might be better, but Happiness is there most different, and I like it about as much. Most risky is a good thing.

I just think it has a lot to do with people putting too much emphasis in a frontman or a line-up that made an album they love. I think Chiodos was much better off without Craig, but a lot of theirs fans were fans just cause they liked him, and probably didn't even give their new stuff a chance. Bands like TBS who kind of lose relevance and then go 'back to their roots' with an old line-up really aren't going to necessarily put out a better record, just give their old fans who gave up on them a reason to check out this new stuff. Its lame.