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The Gaslight Anthem News - Page 6
Displaying posts 75 - 88 of 88.
11:03 AM on 04/19/12
chokeychicken
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Jason- I agree with you here about Lefsetz. He paints with a very broad stroke brush. I think his heart is in the right place, but it is not fair accusing everyone for the same crime.

In terms of your comment here:



In 2009 there were several reports on this topic:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236...= ETHAN+SMITH

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...MTcxMjE3Wj.htm

I would like to say few bad apples ruin it for all, but I don't want to be naive. On the other hand, I can't imagine bands at an earlier career stage (Gaslight Anthem) would do this.
an artist or promoter working with Ticketmaster to re-sell tickets on the secondary market is totally different than somebody at a venue giving a broker access to tickets early under the table.

If Ticketmaster is the primary outlet for a show, they would much rather sell premium seats with permission of hte artist or promoter and have everybody get a cut than allow those premium seats to get in the hands of brokers who are selling them for top notch market value and keeping all profits for themselves.

as evident in these paragraphs from the first article:

Quote:
Though scalping tickets is legal in most states, the spiraling prices for tickets sold in the secondary market are frequently the target of ire from consumers, Congress and artists, all of whom say the practice takes advantage of fans while enriching third-party speculators.

Ticketmaster Chief Executive Irving Azoff said in an interview Tuesday that when ticket brokers resell tickets without permission from artists or promoters, it "drives up prices to fans, without putting any money in the pockets of artists or rights holders."

yes, popular artists hold back premium seats in the first 15 or 20 rows so they can be 'auctioned' or 'sold' on Ticketmasters' attempt at a secondary ticket exchange. And that money gets divided up and everybody who deserves money makes money. That's a known practice - again, you can't halt the secondary ticket market, but using it to your advantage so the band and promoter gets paid is better than the 'free for all' alternative.

Also, a band like Gaslight Anthem does not all into this category, because they are not in the minority of being one of the all time best selling artists like springsteen, u2, or neil diamond.
11:05 AM on 04/19/12
Jason Tate
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Jason- I agree with you here about Lefsetz. He paints with a very broad stroke brush. I think his heart is in the right place, but it is not fair accusing everyone for the same crime.

In terms of your comment here:



In 2009 there were several reports on this topic:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236...= ETHAN+SMITH

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...MTcxMjE3Wj.htm

I would like to say few bad apples ruin it for all, but I don't want to be naive. On the other hand, I can't imagine bands at an earlier career stage (Gaslight Anthem) would do this.
Yeah, I've read those ... I just prefer to not make the assumption that it means every single band is doing it. I'd rather assume the best in them until it's shown that they're engaging in this kind of behavior.
11:41 AM on 04/19/12
dafries1
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I am too. I like the band but to be at this point in your career and not have a hand on things like this and then turn around and say "well, we can't control ticket limits" so your fans believe something that isn't true is wrong. If somebody at gaslight fucked up and under estimated the popularity, fine..say so. We're all human, we all make mistakes. But blaming somebody else or not taking responsibility is the reason so many people are misinformed to begin with.

LCD did the same thing - that blog he posted afterwards was so full of shit, it made my head explode.
I am thoroughly enjoying reading all of this, as it is easy to try and place the blame on someone (bands, promoters, scalpers, brokers, ticketmaster, etc.) when things don't work out in your favor. And it seems many people are simply not informed of how the "system" works (myself included).

But I have to make a point about Gaslight choosing a small venue for this show. This is an intimate show, a one time thing. It is for the benefit of the fans where they can hear some new songs from the album. They wanted it to be a small venue and for one date only. Gaslight knows they are bigger than this (they've sold out Radio City and Terminal 5) and they know this would sell out quickly. I can't make a comment on whether or not they are "trying" to make a profit off of it through reselling the tickets (although I want to believe they are better than that). They are obviously going to do a larger tour in support of the album release, and odds are it will be in a NYC venue that matches their popularity (probably not MSG, but maybe a Best Buy Theater or something along the 3000-5000 capacity). Things like this happen all the time, and sometimes with much larger artists (Kanye West @ Bowery Ballroom, Fiona Apple @ all the small venues she played, and Jack White @ Wesbter Hall to name a few) who I highly doubt care about making money off the secondary market when they are already worth millions.

I would think that the best solution, at least in terms of small, intimate venue shows, is to do some sort of fanclub presale where at least the "true" fans have somewhat of a better chance at getting their hands on tickets. Scalpers and resellers will always exist, and have existed long before Ticketmaster ever was around, it's just much easier to do now in the internet age.
11:55 AM on 04/19/12
chokeychicken
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I am thoroughly enjoying reading all of this, as it is easy to try and place the blame on someone (bands, promoters, scalpers, brokers, ticketmaster, etc.) when things don't work out in your favor. And it seems many people are simply not informed of how the "system" works (myself included).

But I have to make a point about Gaslight choosing a small venue for this show. This is an intimate show, a one time thing. It is for the benefit of the fans where they can hear some new songs from the album. They wanted it to be a small venue and for one date only. Gaslight knows they are bigger than this (they've sold out Radio City and Terminal 5) and they know this would sell out quickly. I can't make a comment on whether or not they are "trying" to make a profit off of it through reselling the tickets (although I want to believe they are better than that). They are obviously going to do a larger tour in support of the album release, and odds are it will be in a NYC venue that matches their popularity (probably not MSG, but maybe a Best Buy Theater or something along the 3000-5000 capacity). Things like this happen all the time, and sometimes with much larger artists (Kanye West @ Bowery Ballroom, Fiona Apple @ all the small venues she played, and Jack White @ Wesbter Hall to name a few) who I highly doubt care about making money off the secondary market when they are already worth millions.

I would think that the best solution, at least in terms of small, intimate venue shows, is to do some sort of fanclub presale where at least the "true" fans have somewhat of a better chance at getting their hands on tickets. Scalpers and resellers will always exist, and have existed long before Ticketmaster ever was around, it's just much easier to do now in the internet age.
100% agree. Ok cool, it's a special show. So do what Jack White did for his special intimate NYC show and do will call only, 2 ticket limit and force fans to enter the venue when they pick up tickets so they can't be sold, picked up and delivered. Pretty easy solution if the right people are in charge of working on it.
12:21 PM on 04/19/12
dafries1
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100% agree. Ok cool, it's a special show. So do what Jack White did for his special intimate NYC show and do will call only, 2 ticket limit and force fans to enter the venue when they pick up tickets so they can't be sold, picked up and delivered. Pretty easy solution if the right people are in charge of working on it.
Yeah, I agree. Will call would have been better. I think the presale was will call only, but it was limited to something like 10% of the tickets, maybe less.

This may have been answered already, but who ultimately has control over the format in which the tickets are sold? Or is it some kind of combination of the band, promoter and venue?

Hopefully more and more artists are recognizing these problems and working to fix them beforehand.
12:27 PM on 04/19/12
chokeychicken
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Yeah, I agree. Will call would have been better. I think the presale was will call only, but it was limited to something like 10% of the tickets, maybe less.

This may have been answered already, but who ultimately has control over the format in which the tickets are sold? Or is it some kind of combination of the band, promoter and venue?

Hopefully more and more artists are recognizing these problems and working to fix them beforehand.
it is def not the venue. The band and the promoter can put any restrictions they want on a presale, on-sale or otherwise as long as they explain what is necessary for people to get into the show and make it clear what the restrictions are and how they need to be handled.

some artists even do a residence restriction (KROQ in LA is notorious for this) where only people that have a billing address that is included on a list of pre-approved zip codes can order tickets for the show. That means only local people, in theory, can buy tickets. I think that's a little excessive considering how many people have a CC billing address at a parents house, away for college, etc.
03:43 PM on 04/19/12
CarouselBoy
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Interesting/enlightening thread, minus holly hox
05:38 PM on 04/19/12
Br&New182
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let's get a few things out of the way, since the secondary ticket market is probably the #1 issue people on AP are uninformed about but love to run their mouth about it anyway.

1) Stubhub is not a 'scalper' or a 'broker.' They are a market place. They oversee the transaction between a seller and a buyer. They do not own inventory, they make money on the fees you pay when you buy tickets and when your tickets actually sell. Period.

2) Whoever said people buy "dozens" of tickets is a fucking idiot. Everybody seems to think that just because they type in "gaslight anthem tickets" into google and 20 websites with 100 tickets come up, that the entire venue was sold to people attempting to make a profit on the show. FALSE. Ticket brokers work in networks, just like any other industry - the tickets you see on one broker website will be almost the exact same inventory you see on another site, aside from the price because each broker can set the mark up on their specific website. Those same 100 tickets are just posted all over the web and the guy who is actually holding them gets called when a customer wants them. Period.

3) BLAME THE BAND. It's common sense; the best way to combat a hot show is to add more shows. If the Gaslight Anthem added 2 more dates at Williamsburg Hall, the supply would go up and the prices would drop dramatically. Or, they could move to a larger venue. If they choose not to, they will have a lot of pissed off fans.

4) Anybody that thinks that anything more than a handful of tickets to an ARENA show gets into the hands of brokers directly is simply misinformed. Sure, ONE or TWO brokers in NY might have a contact that gets him a few tickets ahead of time. That's just the way the world works - connected people with money get things. Fact of life. But that number is so small, it can't be something to get upset over. If anything, this happens in sports more than it does in concerts - plenty of teams (The Redskins are a big one) have been caught selling tickets directly to brokers for an initial mark up or physically held back their own tickets to list on Stubhub. This happens significantly less in the concert industry.

5) "going paperless" is not always the answer. Fact: brokers can use VISA gift cards to buy paperless tickets and when they sell, they can ship the customer that gift card to allow them entry. There are ways around everything. Can a band make it difficult? Absolutely. But when a band goes out of their way to make something difficult for brokers, they make the end experience for their fans a pain in the ass, too. ie: what if I'm a real fan, the show is paperless, and I want to give the tickets to a friend as a gift? It's a pain in the ass, if not nearly impossible to do this as a normal fan.

6) a presale selling out immediately means nothing. Sites like artist arena and front gate put MAYBE 50-100 tickets total out for a presale. Normally closer to 50. So yeah, 25 people got in and got 2 tickets in 10 seconds. Really not that big of a deal.

7) Every single thing you buy all day is marked up at some point. Gas, groceries, repairs, etc. If things weren't sold at a profit at some point along the way, the entire business state of America would collapse. I understand the frustration about tickets specifically because it "seems to easy," or "i could do that" mentality, but when the demand for anything outweighs the supply, there is a small portion of people willing to pay more than the 'face value' of a product in order to have it. It's the same way when a popular tech item such as an iphone or new gaming system comes out and there just aren't enough to go around.

8) Calling a broker an asshole for marking up a ticket 200% instead of 75% is asinine. Tickets, like most other things, are sold at a market value - that is, the value people are willing to pay for them. If people are only willing to pay 50 bucks over face value, that is where the market would sit. If you want to blame somebody besides the band for booking a venue too small or only one date, blame the people buying the tickets at 230 dollars because it tells brokers that at least at this point in time, there is a market for such a market up because sales are happening. If they aren't purchased at $230, they will drop until they reach a point where they do start selling. Again, simple economics. The consumer buying the product determines where a market settles by buying or refusing to buy.

I have never understood why people get so worked up about tickets being re-sold at a profit, but nobody ever complains about people that buy houses to 'flip them.' Same idea, different industry. Sure, you COULD have bought that house in 2008 when the market sucked and flipped it for 50K profit in 2012. But you didn't, for whatever reason. The person that did put their money on the line and took a risk - and it happened to pay off.

I never seem to see people complaining when the 'scalpers' took a chance on a tour that bombed, and you're able to get into a sold out show for 50% face value. There was a Bruce Springsteen show a few weeks ago where you could get in the door for 20 dollars if you wanted to, because the demand just wasn't there. Didn't see anybody complaining about that when the tides are turned and the brokers who put their money on the line got fucked and lost money and scalping helps the consumer win.

The bottom line is that ticket brokers provide a service to people that are interested in paying for it, plain and simple. Ticket brokers aren't the SOLE reason you are missing the show if you didn't get tickets - blame the band for not playing enough dates in a specific market or playing a venue that is too small for their popularity level. Blaming brokers for "buying up the venue" is assuming that had they not done so, those tickets would be in YOUR hands, which is like saying if a certain number of people didn't buy a lottery ticket, yours would have been the winner automatically. Unrealistic and completely assumptive.

I'd go on, but this already TL;DR.

thank you for explaining economics to the kids. I was gonna but im feeling too lazy.

but seriously, it's not black and white. why is gaslight only playing 1 show in a small venue in NY anyway?
08:54 PM on 04/19/12
xSpillFiction
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Not bashing Gaslight. It's just a dead issue.
i don't understand how it's a "dead issue" though. just because they're not as big as a typical arena band doesn't mean their tickets don't get scalped. not everybody can be on ticketmaster the second tickets go on sale. the people with real world obligations should be forced to pay double or more? i think it's even WORSE that smaller bands ares scalped. tickets for the show in my area are $230 minimum at the moment. but it's a dead issue? (sorry if this came across as nasty - not intended to. just trying to understand you're point/explain my disagreement.)
09:00 PM on 04/19/12
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Interesting/enlightening thread, minus holly hox

every time
09:06 PM on 04/19/12
Holly HoX!
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i don't understand how it's a "dead issue" though. just because they're not as big as a typical arena band doesn't mean their tickets don't get scalped. not everybody can be on ticketmaster the second tickets go on sale. the people with real world obligations should be forced to pay double or more? i think it's even WORSE that smaller bands ares scalped. tickets for the show in my area are $230 minimum at the moment. but it's a dead issue? (sorry if this came across as nasty - not intended to. just trying to understand you're point/explain my disagreement.)

it's all good. didn't come off nasty. but i don't want to get into it. don't care at all to argue. sorry.

i've never had this problem with tickets before. when i bought tickets for the bon iver tour this fall in minneapolis, tickets sold out in literally 15 mintues, if that. i knew it was going to happen, pre-registered for two differnet mailing lists to get special pre-sale codes, logged in and updated my cc information on TM before my order to speed the process and i was able to get two tickets. just need to plan. don't know what else to say.

maybe i'm just lucky. who knows?

i'm just sharing my experience. if you want logistics, go back and check out chokey's nice posts.
09:21 PM on 04/19/12
ParkAvenue
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I'd join the 11 Club in a heartbeat.
12:01 PM on 04/20/12
xSpillFiction
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it's all good. didn't come off nasty. but i don't want to get into it. don't care at all to argue. sorry.

i've never had this problem with tickets before. when i bought tickets for the bon iver tour this fall in minneapolis, tickets sold out in literally 15 mintues, if that. i knew it was going to happen, pre-registered for two differnet mailing lists to get special pre-sale codes, logged in and updated my cc information on TM before my order to speed the process and i was able to get two tickets. just need to plan. don't know what else to say.

maybe i'm just lucky. who knows?

i'm just sharing my experience. if you want logistics, go back and check out chokey's nice posts.
maybe you're just really lucky, for sure. maybe it's also because i'm in a huge city? but i've tried to get tickets to things and at the EXACT TIME they go on sale, boom they're gone and i get shit. it's rather aggravating. haha
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