[Jonathan Sander]

Hey all ... I'd love to get feedback from the forum on my latest article at PJ Lifestyle. Though the site's readership is primarily conservative, I'm trying to push alternative viewpoints on music, and thought hip-hop was a genre which needed wider exposure among that audience. Feel free to join the conversation in the comments on the actual article or leave feedback here. I was aiming for ten albums which are essential for those looking for a genre primer, so I know there are some which had to be left off by necessity. Did I hit the mark?

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/04...ip-hop-albums/

[Dustin Harkins]

Close.
I'd put
Nas - Illmatic
Jay-Z - The Blueprint or The Black Album
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
NWA - Straight Outta Compton
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
The Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
2pac - All Eyez On Me
Mos Def - Black On Both Sides

In no order because I don't feel like ranking them.

[georgedcc]

Pretty good list. Not sure the Beastie Boys should be number 1, but apart from that, there's no real complaints.

[Jonathan Sander]

I seemed to have pissed off some Notorious B.I.G. fans for leaving off his album ... but with any list you're going to leave someone in the cold. I'm trying to figure out why the list hasn't inspired many on the site to cilck through, even if only to argue that hip-hop has no place in rational discussion ;) Meanwhile the site's Southern Rock article has inspired a virtual jihad against its author, who dared to put Hootie and the Blowfish on their "definitive" southern rock list ;) I guess you never know what will draw people in.

[Jake Jenkins]

Would've left beastie boys off for a BIG album honestly and I don't think it's too soon to say MBDTF deserves a place on lists like these

[Dustin Harkins]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Sander

I seemed to have pissed off some Notorious B.I.G. fans for leaving off his album ... but with any list you're going to leave someone in the cold. I'm trying to figure out why the list hasn't inspired many on the site to cilck through, even if only to argue that hip-hop has no place in rational discussion ;) Meanwhile the site's Southern Rock article has inspired a virtual jihad against its author, who dared to put Hootie and the Blowfish on their "definitive" southern rock list ;) I guess you never know what will draw people in.

The comments on your website depress me.

[Coloso]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Sander

I seemed to have pissed off some Notorious B.I.G. fans for leaving off his album ... but with any list you're going to leave someone in the cold. I'm trying to figure out why the list hasn't inspired many on the site to cilck through, even if only to argue that hip-hop has no place in rational discussion ;) Meanwhile the site's Southern Rock article has inspired a virtual jihad against its author, who dared to put Hootie and the Blowfish on their "definitive" southern rock list ;) I guess you never know what will draw people in.

no offense but it's almost definitely because the choices aren't very controversial and (sorry to sound like a dick but) generic. not to say i agree/disagree with the choices, just sayin...
could use some GZA - Liquid Swords in my opinion though

[Jake Jenkins]

Holy shit that comment....

[Dustin Harkins]

Originally Posted by SophGod

Would've left beastie boys off for a BIG album honestly and I don't think it's too soon to say MBDTF deserves a place on lists like these

This.
And I think it's a little too soon but someday.

Originally Posted by Star Slight

no way are any of them better than Enter the Wu Tang except Illmatic, and none are better than illmatic


talking about hip hop is talking about hiphop, though. So good work

Also definitely needs a BIG album and yes it is too early for MBDTF to be included in an all time greatest ever hip hop list

Illmatic would be my #1 on a list of hip hop essential albums or influential albums.

[Dustin Harkins]

Originally Posted by Star Slight

I'm "You All Suck"

it's just crazy that so many people out there claim to be music fans while having those viewpoints. I always forget that while people on this site are pretty fucking stupid, there's millions of people out there who are even worse with a layer of open racism on top

The comment that basically said "everyone on this list other than the white people are racist" was so annoying.

[Jonathan Sander]

Originally Posted by Dustin Harkins

The comments on your website depress me.

Me too ... but my goal is specifically to push the envelope and try to convince people that they should step outside their comfort zones. Whether that can work or not remains to be seen :)

[Jonathan Sander]

Originally Posted by Star Slight

no way are any of them better than Enter the Wu Tang except Illmatic, and none are better than illmatic


talking about hip hop is talking about hiphop, though. So good work

Also definitely needs a BIG album and yes it is too early for MBDTF to be included in an all time greatest ever hip hop list

I thought about Kanye for the list but thought it was too soon for him to be on a best of all time list ... if it was purely my favorites, College Dropout might have made the cut ;)

[Jonathan Sander]

Originally Posted by Coloso

no offense but it's almost definitely because the choices aren't very controversial and (sorry to sound like a dick but) generic. not to say i agree/disagree with the choices, just sayin...
could use some GZA - Liquid Swords in my opinion though

I definitely want to push the envelope more in future articles. But as for controversial, defending N.W.A.'s "Fuck The Police" on a conservative website is at least a step in the right direction I'd think ;)

[Jonathan Sander]

Originally Posted by Star Slight

"Sorry, but “hip-hop” or “rap” has no cultural value at all. It is symptomatic of the degraded culture we live in that it has gained such popularity and become “mainstream” to a large degree. It is cheap, shallow, vulgar derivative garbage produced by vacuous, degraded minds that lack the musical talent to compose anything original (they merely “sample” – i.e. steal – music from other original artists), the lyrical talent to express their feelings without resorting to extreme profanity, vulgarity, and hatred. They spew almost nothing but profanity, misogyny, violence, disrespect for authority figures (I find it sickening the way Marshall Mathers “raps” about his mother – whatever happened to “Honor they Father and Mother?”) and other unsavory topics. I have yet to encounter a rap by any of these “luminaries” in the field that was in any way uplifting or enlightening to the human spirit. I’m sorry PJ Media has someone on staff promoting this kind of depravity as “art.”


yo are the people who post on your site 60 year old white women?

favorite parts of that:
"sample" - i.e. steal
disrespect for authority figures

That's my favorite post as well ... he or she put a lot of thought into trashing something they felt had no cultural value at all. I'd say just the fact that we're debating its value suggests there's value ... but anyone who references "honor thy father and thy mother" isn't going to be convinced by anything I have to say.

[Jonathan Sander]

Originally Posted by Dustin Harkins

The comment that basically said "everyone on this list other than the white people are racist" was so annoying.

That guy's a regular trolling poster ... he does that to almost any article. I liked the guy who responded that his posts pretty much prove his taste in music is crap. At least some readers keep an open mind ;)

By the way, all of you talking about the comments at PJ Media should post your take on hip-hop at large and the article ;) Liven things up for everyone ... I think some spirited debate, even with the trolls dropping in, would be worthwhile.