Originally Posted by Drew Beringer

all PN.org threads are nightmares to read. love the site, hate the users there

I actually never go on that site and just checking out that thread right now is awful. That's normalcy over there?

Originally Posted by Indoor Living

Is it 10 minutes ago already?

jeeze gimme a break i didn't read the entire thread in 5 seconds

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

The post said, "argument about what it means to identify with a different gender." The medical alteration is something different entirely.

Fair... but then don't you think there can be an argument to whether we should be ethically required to call him SHE or HER if he is merely identifying with being a woman at this point?

Originally Posted by Kgod

I agree, in a way that's what we would hope for the future. Interesting if one day we can see this early in a child's developmet. But I think I'm getting ahead of myself....

look at how bent out of shape people are over this? one person's decision, 51 pages of absolute gibberish. really? who the fuck cares. it's his life, let him have surgery to become a robot centaur with laser-beam projecting eyes for all I care. but that fact, of there being 44 pages of passionate comments on one mans decision, that none of us even know, it's just weird to me.

what is really funny tho, is that I remember singing along to New Wave in my car and thinking "Man, I wish my voice was that manly." and apparently he was wishing the opposite, wish we could trade or something.

seriously tho, everyone needs to realize that he's just someone. that's it. he made a couple records that we liked. the end. and chill the fuck out. he's not your brother. he's not your cousin. he's not even your friend. na'mean?

people are ridiculous. that's all I gotta say. you're all weird as fuck and wonderful.

I'm as shocked as anyone else by this. But does anyone know if they finished recording their new record or not? How does this affect the future of the band as well?

Originally Posted by Indoor Living

I haven't, I need to. My mom couldn't speak highly enough of it, it's on the list. Have you?

Not yet, but I plan on it. It's on my list of books to read, so I'll get to it soon enough. I've wanted to since I saw his interview with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show.

Originally Posted by 11:11

Only something like 10-20% of women orgasm from penetration alone.

and half of them were faking it

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

Took me a while to figure it all out ... and a lot of information comes at you quickly. Thankfully I have a friend that was there to talk with me about a lot of stuff, and another that is a gender studies professor (and who is awesome at teaching).

It definitely is a huge amount of stuff to understand. This last semester I luckily had one class on gender studies and another on the psychology and biology of human sexuality. I learned so much about this stuff, and am quite happy I did.

all i wanna know is what happens next.

Originally Posted by prospekt

Maybe people oppose it because they think it'll be weird for the daughter to grow up with a father then double mother?

Again I don't have a stance on this issue, but I've been noticing that too many people on this site are insanely myopic wheb discussing gay rights. They choose to pick one side of the coin and then everyone who disagrees with them is all of the sudden ignorant and a bigot. Give me a break. Nobody's view on this is the law.

I certainly agree that people on this site can be very quick to label people bigots when there is any opposition to generic PC talking points. However, for this case, I don't see how this has any negative effect on the child. I also don't agree with questioning Laura's family values here. People who deny and suppress their natural sexual makeup have been known to become depressed and even abusive later on in life.

Ah, so it'll all be explained in the RS article. Should be a good read.

The only part of this news I have a problem with is Laura saying she is hoping people understand and hoping they'll be fairly kind.

What gives anyone in this thread the right to even discuss this like their opinion means anything to the situation? And that's positive or negative. I've seen loads of people already discussing it in depth like their 'logic' matters in the outcome of another human being's life - get over yourselves. You either sound condescending or like an intolerant bigot. These types of people are both as bad as each other.

Good luck for the future, Laura. You've showed great strength right from the start coming out this way, and if you keep this sort of strength up throughout your transition, you'll achieve whatever targets you have.

Originally Posted by shwaz499

Because there clearly seems to be a gender grey area that I think some people have trouble embracing. Just because he identifies with a woman doesn't mean he should be a full blown woman. In the end, I think he should do what will make him happy I just think its fair to have discussions about this because I think some people rush to these decisions before they are really sure.

You're completely right, there's no clear cut male-female two sided system. In fact, a lot of experts say there's 5 genders, and a lot say that there's an infinite amount along the spectrum from male to female. That's pretty agreed upon. That being said, you're going to want a certain type of genitalia, and if it's different than what you have, you should consider changing it.

Originally Posted by shwaz499

Fair... but then don't you think there can be an argument to whether we should be ethically required to call him SHE or HER if he is merely identifying with being a woman at this point?

I'd say it depends on what she'd like to be called.

Originally Posted by shwaz499

Fair... but then don't you think there can be an argument to whether we should be ethically required to call him SHE or HER if he is merely identifying with being a woman at this point?

You should ethically be required to call them "she", because that's what I assume she would want (based on the situation, plus a few trans people I've met have asked for the same).