[David87]

Oh dear...

The butchering of history going on in this thread is hurting me as a history nerd

[Scrawns]

Originally Posted by TorontoMatt

Germany. One country. Took on the world. Lost WW1. Britain wanted them to suffer. Germany suffered. Germany suffered too much. Got into another war because of their suffering and elitism. Kicked the worlds ass for many years. Finally couldn't keep it up. Lost the war. Britain and the rest decide not to punish them again or else they'll rise up again and kick some ass. Germany, still very much hardworking, so hardworking that one country is capable of taking on a world. Why their economy is up and others like Greece and Spain, and USA is down? Just the way of the people. Not their fault for being great. Not your fault for not being as great. Kinda like why the Chinese are so good in math. Germans are good in life.

I don't mean any offense but this post can be marked with numerous inaccuracies.

The Germans were by no means the only country that fought the Allies in the Great War. Their participation in the war is solely and directly correlated to their alliance with Austria-Hungary, and the deterioration of relations between A-H and Serbia. The Germans may have been the strongest amongst the Triple Alliance countries, but the efforts of their allies at places like Cer, and Gallipoli were essential to progress for the Triple Alliance. 10 million dead Ottomans, Austrians, and Hungarians would disagree that Germany took the world on themselves.

The role of the British in the severity of reparations after the war is quite secondary to that of the French. While Woodrow Wilson and the Americans definitely had the most relaxed of demands, the French under Clemenceau had the harshest. Their goal was to cripple Germany beyond any possibility of recovery because they alone shared a border with the Germans, and had been engaged in what they called an "eternal conflict" with the Germans.

It is an extreme generalization to say that "Germany got into another war because of their suffering and elitism". The leadership of the NSDAP were jaded by what they experienced in the early 1900's, and took power in Germany with the overwhelmingly unpopular opinions that Germany had to regain her former glory by military might. 99% of Germans were smart enough to know that more bloodshed would do them no good. It should also be noted that those NSDAP leaders won control of the German Reichstag by a number of votes that could be counted on one hand.

To say that the German people faced no punishment for the Second World War is flat out wrong. The separation of their homeland into several different territories held by different hands wreaked havoc upon their culture and economic development. They also endured a puppet government that gave the individual German citizen less power than they held even during the days of Hitler.

The Germans are one of the only people who received reinvestment after the war. In fact, the amount that they received from outside governments in comparison to other countries is staggering. Each side of Germany was propped up by the Western and Communist powers to a full recovery (or as full as one could get given the times).

Germany's success post World War Two, and post Cold War is indeed exceptional. However, I have to note that they have taken an obvious no violence approach to problem solving. In addition to that, Germany has been the philosophical center of the world since the fall of Greece and Rome, so it would make sense that they are a naturally progressive people.

One last thing, the Chinese are actually not all that legendary in the category of Mathematics. Koreans and Japanese among others have tested significantly higher in the subject. The stereotype of Chinese being masters of math is simply parallel to the Western assumption that any given Asian person is Chinese.

Again, I don't mean any offense. I just feel it is my duty as a historian to point these things out so that they aren't taken as hard facts.

[sjb2k1]

holy shit i don't even know where to begin with this. let germany off easily? seriously have you read a history textbook
even wikipedia would work, shit

[IamtheOwl]

If we don’t forgive those who weren’t born then for the crimes of their ancestors we would be in an ever increasing revenge spiral. It’s like argument about Britain paying slavery compensation to Jamaica (which a lot of Jamaicans want to happen) for something that finally stopped 180 years ago. There has to be a point where you say forgive and forget. Otherwise the UK for instance would still be holding grudges against Germany, China, Italy, Japan, Austria, Turkey, Russia, France, Spain, Holland, Italy, Denmark, Norway, America and any other country we had a war with in our existence. There are countries in Eastern Europe where different nationalities and ethnicities hold grudges to this day over wars that happened 100-400 years ago and are unknown to the rest of the world. Do we want to be like them?
For the record, both my Grandads fought in India and Burma in the Second world war, and although I don’t know what they went through, I can imagine it wasn’t very pleasant as one of them refused to meet a Japanese delegation coming to his factory 20 years after the war ended. Despite that I would have no problem dating a Japanese Girl, as I can’t blame her for something that happened before she was born.

[TorontoMatt]

Originally Posted by Scrawns

I don't mean any offense but this post can be marked with numerous inaccuracies.

The Germans were by no means the only country that fought the Allies in the Great War. Their participation in the war is solely and directly correlated to their alliance with Austria-Hungary, and the deterioration of relations between A-H and Serbia. The Germans may have been the strongest amongst the Triple Alliance countries, but the efforts of their allies at places like Cer, and Gallipoli were essential to progress for the Triple Alliance. 10 million dead Ottomans, Austrians, and Hungarians would disagree that Germany took the world on themselves.

The role of the British in the severity of reparations after the war is quite secondary to that of the French. While Woodrow Wilson and the Americans definitely had the most relaxed of demands, the French under Clemenceau had the harshest. Their goal was to cripple Germany beyond any possibility of recovery because they alone shared a border with the Germans, and had been engaged in what they called an "eternal conflict" with the Germans.

It is an extreme generalization to say that "Germany got into another war because of their suffering and elitism". The leadership of the NSDAP were jaded by what they experienced in the early 1900's, and took power in Germany with the overwhelmingly unpopular opinions that Germany had to regain her former glory by military might. 99% of Germans were smart enough to know that more bloodshed would do them no good. It should also be noted that those NSDAP leaders won control of the German Reichstag by a number of votes that could be counted on one hand.

To say that the German people faced no punishment for the Second World War is flat out wrong. The separation of their homeland into several different territories held by different hands wreaked havoc upon their culture and economic development. They also endured a puppet government that gave the individual German citizen less power than they held even during the days of Hitler.

The Germans are one of the only people who received reinvestment after the war. In fact, the amount that they received from outside governments in comparison to other countries is staggering. Each side of Germany was propped up by the Western and Communist powers to a full recovery (or as full as one could get given the times).

Germany's success post World War Two, and post Cold War is indeed exceptional. However, I have to note that they have taken an obvious no violence approach to problem solving. In addition to that, Germany has been the philosophical center of the world since the fall of Greece and Rome, so it would make sense that they are a naturally progressive people.

One last thing, the Chinese are actually not all that legendary in the category of Mathematics. Koreans and Japanese among others have tested significantly higher in the subject. The stereotype of Chinese being masters of math is simply parallel to the Western assumption that any given Asian person is Chinese.

Again, I don't mean any offense. I just feel it is my duty as a historian to point these things out so that they aren't taken as hard facts.

I take no offense. I wrote a quick summary, you wrote a detailed one.It's clear when you wrote " I have to note that they have taken an obvious no violence approach to problem solving. In addition to that, Germany has been the philosophical center of the world since the fall of Greece and Rome, so it would make sense that they are a naturally progressive people" that you were adamant in displaying your opinion and detailed version of what I said.

Being a history major from Duke I to used to want to flex whenever I could show my knowledge. It was my only chance to make use of such a useless degree haha. there's reasons why I don't mention America, Japan, and France in the wars. Those countries at the time were just as "bad" as Germany and therefore need no adulation.
Cheers mate

[tell that mick]

Free Pussy Riot.

[J.C.]

All TorontoMatt is saying is that the jury is still out on the Holocaust.

[J.C.]

Don't Kristallnacht the Nazis until you've tried them.

[TorontoMatt]

Originally Posted by J.C.

All TorontoMatt is saying is that the jury is still out on the Holocaust.

this

[Simulcast]

Originally Posted by J.C.

Don't Kristallnacht the Nazis until you've tried them.

What's with all the Nazi jokes? Are Judenfrage someone will actually engage you in a serious discussion and you'll be proven wrong? Quit stalin, and stay on topic. This is some real shit.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Did somebody say Krushchev??

[David87]

There are so many posts in this thread that I want to respond to with this..

[Simulcast]

Originally Posted by Jake Gyllenhaal

Did somebody say Krushchev??

Well, this is Göring nowhere.

[Love As Arson]

I mean we got away with dropping the atomic bomb.

[Carolina.Alex]

^^^^