AbsolutePunk.net
   Username
Password
All Posts by User
Displaying user's 20 posts.
05:54 PM on 11/01/12
#2
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Independent artist?
That's what I said. Then he signed to Aftermath and released this.
06:15 PM on 11/01/12
#3
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Good album, but man some of the lyrics are so hip hop cliche about women, I have to skip them.
Those songs -- which are like 2 or 3 out of 16 if I remember correctly, compared to those whose are every track -- are him looking back at himself and mocking the stereotypical misogyny that exists in some hip hop. If you ever want to, you should check out the story behind all of the lyrics on the album. It's conceptual. His mind is really incredible.

Also Glassjaw, anyone? haha.
07:12 PM on 11/01/12
#4
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Fantastic album, are you guys going to post a review?
I was actually signed up for it, but I've been busy and there are some really good reviews on it out there...not sure I can express all of its qualities so thoroughly and eloquently, haha. I passed it on to Drew.
08:00 AM on 11/02/12
#5
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
I'm not riding this guy like many of you. He's not that good. He's not that clever. He's not going to say that he chose his own fate, and when came to a fork in the road he went straight.
08:48 AM on 11/02/12
#6
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Everyone always associates hip hop with misogyny as if that's all it's about, but non-hip hop music never gets scrutinized in the same way. Darryl's lyrics in the past, at least, have been pretty degrading whether poetic or personal.
12:44 PM on 11/02/12
#7
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Sure, link me the concept between repeating "bitch don't kill my vibe" so I can see the incredible mind behind this ... I'm open to reading and learning.

Also, I obviously have long had similar contempt (very publicly) for Glassjaw.
It's not aimed at women, "bitch" is aimed at his competition and the bigwigs in the rap industry.
12:46 PM on 11/02/12
#8
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
I know everyone else mentioned it already, but 1. skipping around the album defeats the point of this album and 2. Kendrick's not promoting misogyny, he's telling a story through the eyes of himself back in high school, before he learned what's "real" and what's bullshit.

On the other hand, I can see if you're frustrated by the constant use of "bish" (bitch), though I don't think he's aiming that at women.
Sigh, that's why he plays on the word and twists it, he's not using it in that manner. It's not really something that takes that much thinking. He's a genuinely good guy.
01:47 PM on 11/02/12
#9
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Hiding behind "concept" while propagating antiquated hatred is just ignorant.
Nah, it's not an OF tactic whatsoever. He's not about that at all.

Anyway, I feel like I made my point. I understand you having reservations with the term, but I think it's good to see someone trying to intelligently subvert it to another source, rather than women - it's basically slowly transforming the meaning (but you have to tailor it to an audience who uses it frequently for them to be open to it, in a creative way so that it catches on). I don't know how to explain it without going into more detail, but changing the psycho-sociology of a community isn't easy.

He knows he will reach a wide audience, and when he speaks to the 100,000+ Black youth that look up to him, he'll tell them referring to women degradingly isn't what music or life is about. And if they go "huh?! What about your lyrics?" then he'll explain it exactly as I said- "At one time, but now I haven't once pitted it against women, at all. I was reflecting on my days as a deluded young child in the hood (like yourself)."

I don't think ignoring those from the hood who start to have socially conscious revelations about gender, sex, race, etc is the answer. It's so common, and it isn't fair. One blocks out a lot of powerful voices that way.
02:02 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
This is the same argument people try to make with the term "gay" or "retarded" or "***" - and I disagree on a fundamental level that it's transforming the meaning. The meaning is still completely intact. In this case the term is being used to degrade a group of people (competition? industry?) by calling back to the fact that the term is, inherently, degrading and negative. The association remains regardless of who is being targeted, and I believe it takes a certain level of logical gymnastics to assume that the vast majority of those listening to the music will not draw a parallel between talking down to someone ... and the word's association with the degradation of woman. The song, impact, and lyrics can still carry the author's intended weight without having to resort to using these kinds of words ... that's my personal opinion on the matter. We all interact and respond to art differently, I have strong feelings on the weight and power of words -- so I respond viscerally to them.
I added to my response above. Thoughts?
02:07 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
This is the same argument people try to make with the term "gay" or "retarded" or "***" - and I disagree on a fundamental level that it's transforming the meaning. The meaning is still completely intact. In this case the term is being used to degrade a group of people (competition? industry?) by calling back to the fact that the term is, inherently, degrading and negative. The association remains regardless of who is being targeted, and I believe it takes a certain level of logical gymnastics to assume that the vast majority of those listening to the music will not draw a parallel between talking down to someone ... and the word's association with the degradation of woman. The song, impact, and lyrics can still carry the author's intended weight without having to resort to using these kinds of words ... that's my personal opinion on the matter. We all interact and respond to art differently, I have strong feelings on the weight and power of words -- so I respond viscerally to them.
Also, you don't believe in words losing power as far as cognitive linguistics is concerned? With something like "bish" that has no historically negative associations with it, I find it hard to believe that it would carry the same weight as anything of supposed similarity.
02:42 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
He is from the hood. But yeah, I dunno - he's not trying to be deceptive or give the listeners shock value (OF), and above all he's not coming from a harmful and ignorant place (or, OF immaturity). And yeah, his intentions are made clear where the album's broken down online. I'll be sure to interview him when he comes to Philly because this convo will just go in circles. I do agree with you about saying those words to perpetuate a culture that hangs onto them without thinking about other options or reasons behind why the words are used.

Edit: This was in response to your last quotes to me, not the linguistics part.
02:44 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
Words can lose power, but it's not through continued association with negativity. And the most common examples used (bitch, retarded, gay, etc.) are no where near close to having lost their extremely hurtful and negative association. Instead people use this "oh, the term means something else now" shit to let themselves off the hook, and in turn get angry at anyone that still finds offense in extremely hateful words.
Right, and there's no continued negative association going on here.

Quote:
I have no real comment or thoughts on the word "bish."
I think that the fact that you said this serves its own purpose.
02:58 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
I think everyone sees what you're saying and gets what you mean - using the word is counterproductive to it being used differently or completely removed.

But a question: If I'm teaching my kid about the "n-word", will I say "Now remember, when people call you an 'n' that's bad." No, obviously I'm going to say it. I feel that the same applies here in a way because the context isn't negative - it's intended to be instructive (which I know, you said "let's see proof" and I'll try to give you more than what's already been provided for you). He says it to get a point across, but he's not hanging onto it which is evidenced by the fact that only 5% of his album actually uses it, an equation that's not hard to understand when considering who he's surrounded by. In other words, there's no question that he stands out as his own individual among his peers, most of whom who think the opposite of what he does and are the kinds of people you're speaking out against.

Yeah though, I think we're all tired of discussing this, haha. Thanks for an interesting discussion.
04:08 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
Offline
User Info.
Dre Okorley's Avatar
There's also a plethora of Blink 182 songs with slurs towards women, the use of the word "motherfucker" and so on, but I digress. Stuff like "I fucked a bitch last night"...Kendrick never goes there, and B182 sure weren't trying to tell us anything new. All I hear whenever I go to these punk shows is someone talking about women like bitches, whether they're 16 or 30. No one can police everything, and that's not my point. But I'd rather give him credit than overlook the rampant disrespect that goes on in convos at these shows between fans who listen to punk, rock, pop punk, etc.

Again, I try to steer clear of promoting artists who aren't actually being conscientious or who throw words around for "fun" or out of blatant disrespect for women. If people don't want to give Kendrick the benefit of the doubt, check out a show, or even hit "search" on Google and prove those who support him and his family wrong, then there's not much else to say. I always try to listen to artists I somewhat enjoy whose lyrics I can't get behind and try to figure out where they're coming from, and then decide accordingly after knowing the full story. That's what this music industry is about. There are more dimensions to an artist than just listening to a few tracks and going "welp". Music news sites (such as this one), events, interviews, etc. keep us informed to where we can draw the most sound conclusions, and not take anything for face value or gut reaction.
Options
Related News Stories

NEWS, MUSIC & MORE
Search News
Release Dates
Exclusives
Best New Music
Articles
CONNECT
Submit News
Forums
Contests
Mobile Version
AP.net Logos
HIDDEN TREASURES
AbsolutePunk Podcast
Free Music
Sports Forum
Technology Forum
Recommendations
INFORMATION
Advertising
Contact Us
Copyright Policy
Terms of Service
Privacy Policy
FOLLOW
Twitter | Facebook | RSS
PropertyOfZack
PunkNews.org
UnderTheGun
Chorus.fm