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Comments: Page 5
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02:44 PM on 11/02/12
Jason Tate
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Not once did i say that it was the only way. Theres a ton of lyrical and musical elements in there that convey the point. The obscenity is just one part of that. Censoring himself for this type of record is simply ridiculous. David Simon didnt dumb down or censor any of the language for his characters in the Wire

And pretending the two are on the same level is ridiculous by itself. I'm done arguing with people over why I don't like certain words or songs.
02:45 PM on 11/02/12
Jason Tate
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The story is posted a bunch of times in the official thread. Im on mobile but im sure you can find it. I completely disagree. The use of the word adds every one of those things that you mentioned. We both agree the overuse of the word is ignorant. Thats the point of its use. Thats why its used in the first half of the album. It shows the evolution of an ignorant hoodrat into the success he is now.
Well, from a literary standpoint I believe it fails.
02:46 PM on 11/02/12
Star Slight
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And pretending the two are on the same level is ridiculous by itself. I'm done arguing with people over why I don't like certain words or songs.

Im not arguing. I dont care whether you like this or not. But your unfounded opinion on why the words are used can be discussed.
Again. Not once did I say they were on the same level. My point still stands
02:58 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
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I think everyone sees what you're saying and gets what you mean - using the word is counterproductive to it being used differently or completely removed.

But a question: If I'm teaching my kid about the "n-word", will I say "Now remember, when people call you an 'n' that's bad." No, obviously I'm going to say it. I feel that the same applies here in a way because the context isn't negative - it's intended to be instructive (which I know, you said "let's see proof" and I'll try to give you more than what's already been provided for you). He says it to get a point across, but he's not hanging onto it which is evidenced by the fact that only 5% of his album actually uses it, an equation that's not hard to understand when considering who he's surrounded by. In other words, there's no question that he stands out as his own individual among his peers, most of whom who think the opposite of what he does and are the kinds of people you're speaking out against.

Yeah though, I think we're all tired of discussing this, haha. Thanks for an interesting discussion.
03:14 PM on 11/02/12
Star Slight
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Also i mean just listen to his verse on Sing About Me
03:16 PM on 11/02/12
thesafeword
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jason tate is a bitch
03:20 PM on 11/02/12
RonStoppable
yeezy season approachin
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Nah, it's not an OF tactic whatsoever. He's not about that at all.

Anyway, I feel like I made my point. I understand you having reservations with the term, but I think it's good to see someone trying to intelligently subvert it to another source, rather than women - it's basically slowing transforming the meaning (but you have to tailor it to an audience who uses it frequently for them to be open to it, in a creative way so that it catches on). I don't know how to explain it without going into more detail, but changing the psycho-sociology of a community isn't easy.

He knows he will reach a wide audience, and when he speaks to the 100,000+ Black youth that look up to him, he'll tell them referring to women degradingly isn't what music or life is about. And if they go "huh?! What about your lyrics?" then he'll explain it exactly as I said- "At one time, but now I haven't once pitted it against women, at all. I was reflecting on my days as a deluded young child in the hood (like yourself)."

I don't think ignoring those from the hood who start to have socially conscious revelations about gender, sex, race, etc is the answer. It's so common, and it isn't fair. One blocks out a lot of powerful voices that way.
love this post
03:21 PM on 11/02/12
Jake Jenkins
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damn i got bitches
03:22 PM on 11/02/12
Star Slight
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The OF comment was more about the use of obscenity to tell a story or take on a characters persona, not to compare the two. Kdot obviously does it better/differently
03:24 PM on 11/02/12
RonStoppable
yeezy season approachin
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The story is posted a bunch of times in the official thread. Im on mobile but im sure you can find it. I completely disagree. The use of the word adds every one of those things that you mentioned. We both agree the overuse of the word is ignorant. Thats the point of its use. Thats why its used in the first half of the album. It shows the evolution of an ignorant hoodrat into the success he is now.
agreed with this, it blows my mind when some people hold stories told through music (especially hip hop) to different standards than stories told elsewhere. when was the last time anyone raised issue with a character in a book or movie saying "bitch"?
03:36 PM on 11/02/12
Gaugzilla
and one head can never die
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agreed with this, it blows my mind when some people hold stories told through music (especially hip hop) to different standards than stories told elsewhere. when was the last time anyone raised issue with a character in a book or movie saying "bitch"?
Tate certainly didn't when he listed Kanye's album on his Top 10 lists at the end of the year.
03:58 PM on 11/02/12
cshadows2887
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Hiding behind "concept" while propagating antiquated hatred is just ignorant.

I hope you don't like Scorsese movies.
03:58 PM on 11/02/12
sjb2k1
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Sure it is - I have a big problem with the word "bitch" (see any of LoveAsArson's commentary in the Political Forum) used in this manner. It's hard to listen to ... but thanks for telling me how I should listen to music.
i have a hard time reconciling that you dislike the word bitch but will blatantly tell us women in the politics thread that women aren't funny. And mean it.
04:08 PM on 11/02/12
Dre Okorley
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There's also a plethora of Blink 182 songs with slurs towards women, the use of the word "motherfucker" and so on, but I digress. Stuff like "I fucked a bitch last night"...Kendrick never goes there, and B182 sure weren't trying to tell us anything new. All I hear whenever I go to these punk shows is someone talking about women like bitches, whether they're 16 or 30. No one can police everything, and that's not my point. But I'd rather give him credit than overlook the rampant disrespect that goes on in convos at these shows between fans who listen to punk, rock, pop punk, etc.

Again, I try to steer clear of promoting artists who aren't actually being conscientious or who throw words around for "fun" or out of blatant disrespect for women. If people don't want to give Kendrick the benefit of the doubt, check out a show, or even hit "search" on Google and prove those who support him and his family wrong, then there's not much else to say. I always try to listen to artists I somewhat enjoy whose lyrics I can't get behind and try to figure out where they're coming from, and then decide accordingly after knowing the full story. That's what this music industry is about. There are more dimensions to an artist than just listening to a few tracks and going "welp". Music news sites (such as this one), events, interviews, etc. keep us informed to where we can draw the most sound conclusions, and not take anything for face value or gut reaction.
05:54 PM on 11/02/12
Jeff_Ryan
easy come and easy go, whatever
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Sure it is - I have a big problem with the word "bitch" (see any of LoveAsArson's commentary in the Political Forum) used in this manner. It's hard to listen to ... but thanks for telling me how I should listen to music.
I wasn't trying to "tell you how to listen to music" and honestly meant no disrespect. Personally, I rarely skip tracks on any albums, let alone concept albums. When I listen to music (unless it's a stand-alone single or a song from an album that hasn't been released yet) I would say 95% of the time I listen to a full album front-to-back

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