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06:13 PM on 02/07/13 
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theguy77
Terrain / Ryan
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My critique of that would be that the culture of irony something endemic to current society/communications via the internet. Like in some ways I feel that "post-modernity" is reaching the extremes of dismantling remaining ideas of authenticity. Like I kind of used to agree with DFW talking about how soul-crushing and alienating it can be, but maybe there's positive aspects to it idk.

i sort of see what you're saying (feel free to correct me if it seems like i'm misinterpreting). but i don't feel like everyone masks their attitude on the internet with irony. you see it a lot on forums and messageboards, and sometimes it's completely meaningless and the people are just doing it for amusement. but i feel that because using the internet as a means of social interaction has become so widespread, it's also become more transparent. people use facebook in very genuine ways and interact almost exactly the same way as they do in real life.
06:13 PM on 02/07/13 
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Star Slight
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How come you haven't come into tinychat since my comment about monster trucks?

you offended me to my core/I've been watching too much nascar and DUCK HUNTIN on television/student teaching started and I've been going to sleep at like 1030 every night and going out on the weekends
06:14 PM on 02/07/13 
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achassi
duck president
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where art thou attackattackman?
06:14 PM on 02/07/13 
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IntoTheSun
my blood flows harshly
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I'm not sure I'm following/admittedly ignorant on the subject. What positive aspects would you see?

I'm not sure...you'll probably have to talk to someone who actually enjoys social media for that one lol.

As for the DFW article:

Quote:
DAVID FOSTER WALLACE ON IRONY
Make no mistake: irony tyrannizes us.
Irony and cynicism were just what the U.S. hypocrisy of the fifties and sixties called for. That’s what made the early postmodernists great artists. The great thing about irony is that it splits things apart, gets up above them so we can see the flaws and hypocrisies and duplicates. The virtuous always triumph? Ward Cleaver is the prototypical fifties father? “Sure.” Sarcasm, parody, absurdism and irony are great ways to strip off stuff’s mask and show the unpleasant reality behind it. The problem is that once the rules of art are debunked, and once the unpleasant realities the irony diagnoses are revealed and diagnosed, “then” what do we do?
Irony’s useful for debunking illusions, but most of the illusion-debunking in the U.S. has now been done and redone. Once everybody knows that equality of opportunity is bunk and Mike Brady’s bunk and Just Say No is bunk, now what do we do? All we seem to want to do is keep ridiculing the stuff. Postmodern irony and cynicism’s become an end in itself, a measure of hip sophistication and literary savvy. Few artists dare to try to talk about ways of working toward redeeming what’s wrong, because they’ll look sentimental and naive to all the weary ironists. Irony’s gone from liberating to enslaving. There’s some great essay somewhere that has a line about irony being the song of the prisoner who’s come to love his cage.
The problem is that, however misprised it’s been, what’s been passed down from the postmodern heyday is sarcasm, cynicism, a manic ennui, suspicion of all authority, suspicion of all constraints on conduct, and a terrible penchant for ironic diagnosis of unpleasantness instead of an ambition not just to diagnose and ridicule but to redeem. You’ve got to understand that this stuff has permeated the culture. It’s become our language; we’re so in it we don’t even see that it’s one perspective, one among many possible ways of seeing. Postmodern irony’s become our environment.
All U.S. irony is based on an implicit “I don’t really mean what I say.” So what does irony as a cultural norm mean to say? That it’s impossible to mean what you say? That maybe it’s too bad it’s impossible, but wake up and smell the coffee already? Most likely, I think, today’s irony ends up saying: “How very banal to ask what I mean.” Anyone with the heretical gall to ask an ironist what he actually stands for ends up looking like a hysteric or a prig. And herein lies the oppressiveness of institutionalized irony, the too-successful rebel: the ability to interdict the question without attending to its content is tyranny. It is the new junta, using the very tool that exposed its enemy to insulate itself.
The next real literary “rebels” in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naïve, anachronistic. Maybe that’ll be the point. Maybe that’s why they’ll be the next real rebels.
Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today’s risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal.” To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows.
06:16 PM on 02/07/13 
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Star Slight
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"Few artists dare to try to talk about ways of working toward redeeming what’s wrong, because they’ll look sentimental and naive to all the weary ironists. Irony’s gone from liberating to enslaving. "

I can get down with that idea, specifically on this site.
06:25 PM on 02/07/13 
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IntoTheSun
my blood flows harshly
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idk I just think the historical context of "youth subcultures" today is super important, because subcultures/mainstream culture is all kind of blended together now in a mish-mosh, so consequently no one wants to identify as a hipster (because it's not a real community or subculture)/it doesn't mean anything. It's just like, have you ever walked into an urban outfitters????
06:28 PM on 02/07/13 
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theguy77
Terrain / Ryan
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that is a really interesting article. kind of points out that people use irony as a means to actually justify the things that they're mocking. this whole idea that, as long as you show self-awareness and/or self-criticism, you can be as ridiculous or even as intolerable as you want. i understand how that can be more accepted in society than someone who is ignorant of their flaws and openly proud of their rude or outlandish behavior, because with irony in essence you're downplaying your own ego. but i can't stand people who abuse that, and act like assholes to everybody, justifying it by saying it's a self-mocking facade. you're still an asshole regardless whether you're being ironic about it or not.
07:18 PM on 02/07/13 
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Argentine
When I die, rap dies; Destiny Bond.
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You guys are really just going to keep bumping this shit, huh?
09:40 PM on 02/07/13 
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Really Swell
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I didn't read past the first two, but they are in general, ridiculous.

I like some bands that are considered "hipster bands", but I sure as hell am not one of these people. How long do you think it takes these people every night to pull off those skinny jeans?
09:45 PM on 02/07/13 
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daftpunker45
Yeezus season approaching.
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So what does it mean when that article partially describes you? Does that mean you're not a hipster because you think you're one?
10:19 PM on 02/07/13 
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Really Swell
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I like what some may describe as "hipster music", but I don't personally feel like I fit the stereotypical profile of one.
07:21 AM on 02/08/13 
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Regards
I am Groot
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Wisconsin
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Why is this thread still going?



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