AbsolutePunk.net
   Username
Password
Books News - Page 11
Displaying posts 150 - 165 of 206.
03:44 PM on 12/18/12
Jason Tate
Offline
User Info.
Jason Tate's Avatar
But the message the lyrics send to a person does not, at least in my opinion. The way youre arguing it, no lyrics matter because the intent doesnt matter.
I think hes a good writer because i can analyze the lyrics and understand the metaphor. If you dont, you wont. There we go
And we're back at my original point of me not thinking you understand most of New Criticism in the first place; which I already said 4 pages ago when I wanted to stop responding. This is why.
03:44 PM on 12/18/12
JWillTrick
Registered User
Offline
User Info.
JWillTrick's Avatar

This video affirms that he is an average vocalist. He's an average vocalist that knows how to properly "sell" his mediocrity. That's where credit is due.
03:45 PM on 12/18/12
The_Effort
Regular Member
Offline
User Info.
The_Effort's Avatar
03:45 PM on 12/18/12
georgedcc
.
Offline
User Info.
georgedcc's Avatar
I'm not getting into any of this deep stuff about heresy of paraphrase or any of that nonsense, but Frank Ocean has a bloody good voice. I cannot understand how you can listen to him sing and think "he is not a good singer". He's a very talented vocalist.
03:46 PM on 12/18/12
Star Slight
.
Online
User Info.
Star Slight's Avatar
And we're back at my original point of me not thinking you understand most of my leanings and thoughts toward New Criticism in the first place.

Explain new criticism then, man.
Were back to the point of you misunderstanding my analysis of the lyrics to Lost, too.
03:47 PM on 12/18/12
Jason Tate
Offline
User Info.
Jason Tate's Avatar
We are now in Jonny Craig territory. Backs away slowly.
03:51 PM on 12/18/12
Jason Tate
Offline
User Info.
Jason Tate's Avatar
Explain new criticism then, man.
Were back to the point of you misunderstanding my analysis of the lyrics to Lost, too.
I already said I don't have the time to do that, here - enjoy. It's not like this is something brand-new:

New Criticism emphasizes explication, or "close reading," of "the work itself." It rejects old historicism's attention to biographical and sociological matters. Instead, the objective determination as to "how a piece works" can be found through close focus and analysis, rather than through extraneous and erudite special knowledge. It has long been the pervasive and standard approach to literature in college and high school curricula.

New Criticism, incorporating Formalism, examines the relationships between a text's ideas and its form, between what a text says and the way it says it. New Critics "may find tension, irony, or paradox in this relation, but they usually resolve it into unity and coherence of meaning" (Biddle 100). New Criticism attempts to be a science of literature, with a technical vocabulary, some of which we all had to learn in junior high school English classes (third-person, denoument, etc.). Working with patterns of sound, imagery, narrative structure, point of view, and other techniques discernible on close reading of the text, they seek to determine the function and appropriateness of these to the self-contained work.

New Critics, especially American ones in the 1940s and 1950s, attacked the standard notion of "expressive realism," the romantic fallacy that literature is the efflux of a noble soul, that for example love pours out onto the page in 14 iambic pentameter lines rhyming ABABCD etc. The goal then is not the pursuit of sincerity or authenticity, but subtlety, unity, and integrity--and these are properties of the text, not the author. The work is not the author's; it was detached at birth. The author's intentions are "neither available nor desirable" (nor even to be taken at face value when supposedly found in direct statements by authors). Meaning exists on the page. Thus, New Critics insist that the meaning of a text is intrinsic and should not be confused with the author's intentions nor the work's affective dimension (its impressionistic effects on the reader). The "intentional fallacy" is when one confuses the meaning of a work with the author's purported intention (expressed in letters, diaries, interviews, for example). The "affective fallacy" is the erroneous practice of interpreting texts according to the psychological or emotional responses of readers, confusing the text with its results.


Enjoy. I've got other shit to do.
03:51 PM on 12/18/12
caveBEAR
( ω )
Offline
User Info.
caveBEAR's Avatar
I didn't interpret or derive any meaning from the lyrics, so no. He asked for examples from the text where I didn't find "his usage of metaphor, imagery, irony, or denotation anything special" and I gave one while pointing out, "[p]ulling random examples is pretty pointless."

Did you understand what his lyrics were about though? I mean, he uses 'slang' to represent things like drugs in sweaters and pimps, so if you aren't familiar with the terms, how can you judge metaphors, imagery, irony, etc.?
03:55 PM on 12/18/12
Jason Tate
Offline
User Info.
Jason Tate's Avatar
Did you understand what his lyrics were about though? I mean, he uses 'slang' to represent things like drugs in sweaters and pimps, so if you aren't familiar with the terms, how can you judge metaphors, imagery, irony, etc.?
New Criticism emphasizes explication, or "close reading," of "the work itself." It rejects old historicism's attention to biographical and sociological matters. Instead, the objective determination as to "how a piece works" can be found through close focus and analysis, rather than through extraneous and erudite special knowledge.
03:57 PM on 12/18/12
caveBEAR
( ω )
Offline
User Info.
caveBEAR's Avatar
New Criticism emphasizes explication, or "close reading," of "the work itself." It rejects old historicism's attention to biographical and sociological matters. Instead, the objective determination as to "how a piece works" can be found through close focus and analysis, rather than through extraneous and erudite special knowledge.

So you're judging the meaning that exists on the page without understanding the meaning of what's being judged?
03:58 PM on 12/18/12
ChaseTx
Entitled user
Offline
User Info.
ChaseTx's Avatar
I'm not educated enough to follow this bullshit...
Hahaha. I love the subtlety of this.

This has been entirely a debate of semantics and vague notions of critical methodology, without application thereof. It would have been so much more to the point if the argument was instead a discussion of the lyrics themselves.
03:59 PM on 12/18/12
georgedcc
.
Offline
User Info.
georgedcc's Avatar
Jason, just out of interest because this conversation has lost me about a dozen times and I'm sleepy, do you believe Frank ocean is a bad writer and anybody who thinks he's a good writer is wrong, or are you just saying that you don't like his lyrics?
04:07 PM on 12/18/12
The_Effort
Regular Member
Offline
User Info.
The_Effort's Avatar
I'm not sure I get the concept. What exactly are you criticizing if not the meaning behind the work and the way the work is presented?

If the intent of the words is irrelevant, what makes something good or something bad? Maybe you can simply say the way it was phrased, but even then aren't you just taking something at face value and judging it without any sort of actual critical analysis as to it's content?

Edit: this isn't me taking sides. I'm not familiar enough with his writing to say whether or not he's good. I'm just genuinely curious about this concept.
04:24 PM on 12/18/12
Star Slight
.
Online
User Info.
Star Slight's Avatar
Oh wait so i agree with new criticism and those quotes have nothing to do with what i was saying? Alright then
04:25 PM on 12/18/12
Holly HoX!
*
Offline
User Info.
Holly HoX!'s Avatar
Korky Dilsmack

all that needs to be said
Options
Related News Stories

NEWS, MUSIC & MORE
Search News
Release Dates
Exclusives
Best New Music
Submit News
CONNECT
Forums
Contests
RSS
Mobile Version
Banners, Flyers, Widgets
HIDDEN TREASURES
Free Music
Video News
Sports Forum
AP.net Related News
Recommendations
INFORMATION
FAQ
Contact Us
Copyright Policy
Terms of Service
Privacy Policy
FOLLOW
Twitter | Facebook
PropertyOfZack
PunkNews.org
UnderTheGun
Chorus.fm