Don't see anything wrong with this. Don't know if I'd agree, but it's not that ridiculous of a claim.

EDIT: Glad they cleared this up...
"While commercial success is important to the equation -- and the sole reason the brilliant Talib Kweli and Pharoahe Monch aren't included in the debate -- it's only one variable."
...since in rap Pharoahe Monch would probably be my pick.

Originally Posted by Chris92

Oh wow. This thread is going to be very ugly.

Not sure why you felt the need to post this news in the manner that you did, Jason.

Yeah, I'm not sure why either.

Originally Posted by Jay Evan

You can hate him now, but he won't stop now

AHHHHHHHHHHH

Hurry, Dre, we need you here.

Originally Posted by Chris92

Right, because music is not subjective at all. At the very least Nas is a fantastic lyricist, so what makes someone arbitrarily declaring him "the greatest" so outrageous?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

There is no such "in hip-hop" attachement to this statement.

By reading the article and seeing that all the references to his competition for the title are in hip hop, it's pretty obvious that that's what they meant.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

I would disagree.

Those words were carefully chosen: "lyricist" over "rapper" or "hip-hop artist;" "greatest" instead of "most successful;" "all time" rather than "today."

Of. All. Time.

All he was saying with that is that he wasn't trying to say he had the best rhythmic flow (as in "rapper") or music (as in "hip hop artist") in hip hop.

He also said:

"OK, no lists then; just a strong case for Nas being the best rhymesmith ever, the GOAT, numero uno, and a humble concession that this is but one man's opinion and yours are enthusiastically welcomed below."

Originally Posted by weworemasks

A case for Nas, hip-hop's finest MC is the headline. Whole article is about hip-hop.

Even the paragraph you quoted:

Those words were carefully chosen: "lyricist" over "rapper" or "hip-hop artist;" "greatest" instead of "most successful;" "all time" rather than "today."

Those are all referring to the genre of hip-hop and rap, terminology-wise. I don't think they were saying Nas writes better lyrics than John Lennon and Bob Dylan. The context you took it in is completely wrong, but at the same time, the context he used in his actual article is pretty inaccurate too.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

Ok? He said a lot of things ... I don't really care about those -- others can discuss that all they want. I think the statement that Nas is the greatest lyricist of all time is ridiculous ... that's the only statement I am talking about.

Pretty much what Roshan said. You can interpret it how you want, and yes the context he used it in was inaccurate as Roshan said, but his intended opinion with his statement was very, very clear.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

If it was so clear ... he should have added the caveat in the sentence.

... is the greatest lyricist of all time - PERIOD.

It was clear thanks to the bold headline at the top of the article (which Roshan already pointed out).

Notice who added the " - PERIOD". Not the author of the article but your own interpretation of it.

This is the same thing you complain about people doing about news posted on Absolutepunk yet now you're doing it, haha.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

Uh ... that looks like a "." to me ... I just spelled it out to call attention to it. The author definitely added the period. It's still right there.

Exactly! You're calling attention to it because you want it to make a point that it's not making as is shown through simple context clues!

Originally Posted by jonwangcb

Read the title of the article. It clearly sets the context of the statement, and he's clearly talking about MCs. People use the term "lyricist" in this fashion all the time.

Also, this. Although, as I'm sure you (Jason) aren't into the hip hop culture that much (and neither am I comparatively to others), you wouldn't know that, and it provides a lot more clarity to know that.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

So you're saying that the author really meant to say: "is the greatest lyricist of all time in hip-hop." And just left out those three words in that important sentence, which is its own paragraph, and then goes on to point out how much care was taken in forming that sentence? That he took all that effort ... and then just didn't type "in hip-hop" because the entire article mentions other hip-hop artists, and therefore we're all supposed to just know it's hip-hop inclusive ONLY?

Hmmm. Ok. Fine. I'll read this as "is the greatest lyricist of all time in hip-hop" from now on and only roll my eyes instead of completely think it's ridiculous.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If he was going to say he's the greatest of all time and mean it throughout music in general, he would've compared Nas to other songwriters. Maybe it's bad journalism, but it's not the ridiculous claim you're making it out to be.

Originally Posted by Jason Tate

Favorite? Springsteen, Dylan, Morrissey, Lennon.

Favorite Hip Hop? Rakim, Jay-Z, Nas, Chuck D.

Those are close to in order.

Jay-Z is underrated as a lyricist (bolding that because there are so many different areas that he's not underrated in) even now with his more "pop rap" or whatever people will want to call it. To anyone in this thread, I highly recommend his book Decoded.

Originally Posted by Chris92

Been meaning to check that out for quite a while

I expected it to only be slightly interesting when I bought it, but it's brilliant. I love it.

Also, just wanna say that I think in hip hop, Pharoahe Monch is the best lyricist of all time (so far). Almost leaning towards saying in general, too, but then again, there's a lot of music in the past for me to still discover.

Originally Posted by industrialbelt

you can tell j-tate doesn't explore the hip hop genre anymore by his choices of lyricists

I mean, not everyone's required to explore it.