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05:39 PM on 02/06/13
Star Slight
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Like AP could have the most thought provoking review of a hip hop album ever and someone will quote it to a hip hop head and they'll be like yo where'd you hear that and as soon as you say absolutepunk.net the conversation is over
05:39 PM on 02/06/13
incognitojones
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Yeah I can't remember the last review on this site that I read and actually cared about. Much more interested in talking about it with people than only seeing one person's opinion and then some arbitrary score plastered on

Yeah, reviews are primarily just used to justify an opinion and only really inspire debate from a lot of people if the score is on some extreme to incite people. I talked about all that in that thing I linked to subtly in my last post, don't want to get more involved on the topic really.

But news posts for the most part exist to aware people of new music, or get them excited about new music. And in that regard, more rap coverage on this site can only be a good thing. Sure the best discussion might stay only in forum threads, but any discussion no matter how brief is an improvement. I'm at least happy they feel there is a need and are trying to create a position to cover the need. Steps in the right direction, maybe soon the general populace on this site will be listening to a vast array of multiple genres and be able to talk about them in an engaging manner. Wishful thinking.
05:40 PM on 02/06/13
Drew Beringer
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I never said it couldn't. Most of the discussion (and the most interesting part for me) happens in the General forum thread, though.

I'm not saying reviews are useless or anything, I'm just saying I personally don't hold any more weight to them than I do to someone whose opinion I respect discussing the album in General. I don't believe that albums should be one and done reviewed. I think that they can be picked apart and people's opinions can change over time. And while the initial review by a staff member is a good starting point, I think the staffers become super defensive of their writing and it becomes more of an attack than a discussion.


At least from what I've seen on here, anyway
that's fine, you don't have to give reviews any more weight than someone else's opinion you trust. But the review is a good jumping point for discussion, especially for those who don't interact in the general forums. The review thread is a place for everyone to discuss an album together and pick it apart. People will become super defensive about their writing depending on how it's picked apart. Just being respectful about it usually leads to good discussion.
et tu, sensitive sally? Don't think I said anything to genuinely or directly offend you
I'm just sick of your general negative attitude. You're one of the most outspoken on the site about everything's that wrong but you don't do anything to change that.
05:42 PM on 02/06/13
Star Slight
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Yeah, reviews are primarily just used to justify an opinion and only really inspire debate from a lot of people if the score is on some extreme to incite people. I talked about all that in that thing I linked to subtly in my last post, don't want to get more involved on the topic really.

But news posts for the most part exist to aware people of new music, or get them excited about new music. And in that regard, more rap coverage on this site can only be a good thing. Sure the best discussion might stay only in forum threads, but any discussion no matter how brief is an improvement. I'm at least happy they feel there is a need and are trying to create a position to cover the need. Steps in the right direction, maybe soon the general populace on this site will be listening to a vast array of multiple genres and be able to talk about them in an engaging manner. Wishful thinking.
I agree as far as the newsposts, I don't think that anything bad can come of that except from idiots commenting on them, but that can be fun too.

I just am too pessimistic in this regard to believe that this site will ever foster a general yearning to branch out into other genres of music, both because of the name, general age/viewpoints of the average newsposter and the outlook of some of the staff
05:46 PM on 02/06/13
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that's fine, you don't have to give reviews any more weight than someone else's opinion you trust. But the review is a good jumping point for discussion, especially for those who don't interact in the general forums. The review thread is a place for everyone to discuss an album together and pick it apart. People will become super defensive about their writing depending on how it's picked apart. Just being respectful about it usually leads to good discussion.

I'm just sick of your general negative attitude. You're one of the most outspoken on the site about everything's that wrong but you don't do anything to change that.

You pretty much just restated what I said in your first paragraph

I'm pretty outspoken on this issue and I have absolutely no power to change it aside from fostering discussion about the genre, which I do on a regular basis and get called out for. This site cannot change just because I'm bringing up discussions. The attitude of the majority of the staff needs to fit the attitude that you're trying to go for with whatever you're trying to do, in my opinion anyway. A new staffer who no one is familiar with isn't going to hold the same weight that Tate or Nassiff or someone who reviews solely pop punk albums does, and those dudes all tend to have the worst opinions on this type of music. And you know that and you've said yourself that you don't even argue with them anymore. If people saw you taking a stand and saying something, because I know you disagree, then maybe it would change something.

But seeing me argue with them and having them skirt questions and avoid topics and throw out points and call me an idiot doesn't change anything, it validates the general newsposters ignorant viewpoints about the genre
05:46 PM on 02/06/13
incognitojones
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I agree as far as the newsposts, I don't think that anything bad can come of that except from idiots commenting on them, but that can be fun too.

I just am too pessimistic in this regard to believe that this site will ever foster a general yearning to branch out into other genres of music, both because of the name, general age/viewpoints of the average newsposter and the outlook of some of the staff
Idiot comments are just how the internet works.

I'm probably naive to think there can be major changes, because all the things you mentioned are valid reasons for keeping that branching out down or contained, but like I said, this is a step in the right direction. New staff, new viewpoints, open minds, all possibilities. You be the pessimistic about it, I'll be optimistic, and it'll probably fall in the middle somewhere, which is fine for me.

I'd be really happy if this site just took a turn more towards the positive, and getting people excited about music their excited about in any genre. Open ears toward different things and a positive outlook forgetting the negativity can really create a community that thrives around a love of music. Too much hate and close-mindedness make this place toxic and unbearable, but I think its gotten better lately. Maybe I've just been more positive and my outlook changed who knows.
05:47 PM on 02/06/13
deadkidsean
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Nothing has ever changed without trying. This is exactly like the short, useless discussion of homophobia in rap that took place earlier this week. Just because, in your (very possible, very valid) opinion, things won't change, doesn't mean the site should give up all hope. Every major movement this world has ever seen has been opposed. Staunchly. This is that on a very small scale, but the same idea applies. We need AP.net's Rosa Parks. "I met a gypsy and she hipped me to some life game."
05:47 PM on 02/06/13
Drew Beringer
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To be fair Drew most people that check this site do have incredibly backwards opinions regarding hiphop and I doubt it'll ever change.
See, I have been on this long enough to remember when posting about anything about hip-hop on this site brought really backwards opinions and racism and horrible things. After I was hired as staff in 2005, I brought over the first ever hip-hop reviewer for the site and he wrote a few hip hop reviews which were excellent but the response to them were horrible and he ended up quitting because he couldn't handle that response, which was totally fair for him to. It was outrageously bad here. But it didn't stop me, I kept reviewing hip hop here and there over the years and some other staffers followed suit. Slowly but surely the site's outlook did an 180 on the genre, and having Ian on the site for that short time did wonders as well, and Dre - with the few hip hop reviews she has done - has also been a great part of it.

But I have seen it get better over the course of the last 8 years I've been here. It's still far from perfect but it's been a night and day difference between the site RE: hip hop in 2005 to what it is now. I believe getting someone to just focus on the genre and write hip hop reviews consistently will only improve it. I'm not going to throw my hands up and give up and not try like Star Slight.
Yeah my point is that it'll be the same group of people talking about an album regardless of who the reviewer is


Unless it's like you or Tate


Dre is a great reviewer and posts a lot of news for the genre without a lot of feedback. This isn't going to change the website at all
you have no idea what you are talking about
Like AP could have the most thought provoking review of a hip hop album ever and someone will quote it to a hip hop head and they'll be like yo where'd you hear that and as soon as you say absolutepunk.net the conversation is over

well that's too bad, it's not going to stop me from trying.
05:48 PM on 02/06/13
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I think all of you are missing my point. I don't think that this shouldn't happen, I'm in favor of it. I just think that it needs to be pushed farther than just getting one more dude with a red name to post news and reviews.
05:49 PM on 02/06/13
Drew Beringer
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You pretty much just restated what I said in your first paragraph

I'm pretty outspoken on this issue and I have absolutely no power to change it aside from fostering discussion about the genre, which I do on a regular basis and get called out for. This site cannot change just because I'm bringing up discussions. The attitude of the majority of the staff needs to fit the attitude that you're trying to go for with whatever you're trying to do, in my opinion anyway. A new staffer who no one is familiar with isn't going to hold the same weight that Tate or Nassiff or someone who reviews solely pop punk albums does, and those dudes all tend to have the worst opinions on this type of music. And you know that and you've said yourself that you don't even argue with them anymore. If people saw you taking a stand and saying something, because I know you disagree, then maybe it would change something.

But seeing me argue with them and having them skirt questions and avoid topics and throw out points and call me an idiot doesn't change anything, it validates the general newsposters ignorant viewpoints about the genre
you have such a abrasive/attacking tone in your discussions about hip-hop that novices to the genre aren't going to want to discuss it with you.
05:49 PM on 02/06/13
deadkidsean
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I agree as far as the newsposts, I don't think that anything bad can come of that except from idiots commenting on them, but that can be fun too.

I just am too pessimistic in this regard to believe that this site will ever foster a general yearning to branch out into other genres of music, both because of the name, general age/viewpoints of the average newsposter and the outlook of some of the staff

You can apply that to every genre. I bet if you looked at it percentage-wise, there's more negativity and stupidity in your standard *insert AP.net band* thread than a rap thread or review. Because people that don't fuck with rap, for the most part, don't even go into those threads. Of course there will be a few that stick out that are always beating the drum that rap sucks, but it's mostly rap fans in those threads.
05:49 PM on 02/06/13
Drew Beringer
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I think all of you are missing my point. I don't think that this shouldn't happen, I'm in favor of it. I just think that it needs to be pushed farther than just getting one more dude with a red name to post news and reviews.
this is a starting point.
05:49 PM on 02/06/13
Drew Beringer
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I agree as far as the newsposts, I don't think that anything bad can come of that except from idiots commenting on them, but that can be fun too.

I just am too pessimistic in this regard to believe that this site will ever foster a general yearning to branch out into other genres of music, both because of the name, general age/viewpoints of the average newsposter and the outlook of some of the staff
if you would have been a member on this site in 2004 to 2006 and even early 2007, you wouldn't be saying this.
05:50 PM on 02/06/13
Chris Collum
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I think all of you are missing my point. I don't think that this shouldn't happen, I'm in favor of it. I just think that it needs to be pushed farther than just getting one more dude with a red name to post news and reviews.
What else would you suggest?
05:51 PM on 02/06/13
deadkidsean
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if you would have been a member on this site in 2004 to 2006 and even early 2007, you wouldn't be saying this.
Truth.
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