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12:08 AM on 04/19/13 
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seymourbuttes
I'd do anything for a free t-shirt
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Male - 23 Years Old
Not in terms of from the get go. But I have a lot of friends that I grew up with, that were fucking junkies, couldn't control themselves, and somewhere along the line, after I left town, somehow got to rehab, one, two, maybe three times, and eventually cleaned up, and all of a sudden found Jesus, or some god and post bible verses or some shit all the damn time.

My gripe, where the fuck was god when you lied, cheated, and stole to support your habit? You think that shit will grant you access to "heaven" just because you believe now? I'm sick of it. Self control is NOT god. It's something you're supposed to have been born with, and just because you went through your own personal hell, and decided to credit god with bringing you out... Fuck, I'm just really riled up about it right now.

My argument is definitely not with god. I respect all beliefs, although Christianity, and any Jesus religion are the ones I least respect, I still acknowledge their existence. But they seem to always be the ones that junkies, murderers, convicts all turn to.

I'm just sick of seeing all these people do "all the devils" work, and just think because they are sober for the first time, they're not deep inside the same person they always were. Redemption is earned, it's not just granted because you can quote a fucking bible verse.

tl;dr : I know too many "reformed" junkies that are bullshit people.

EDIT: These people don't actually do anything that deserves redemption, they LITERALLY just post bible verses about their sobriety and forgiveness... If you get sober, and actually do something to redeem your past behavior, fine, awesome. And by the way, I'm not sober, I have my vices, I was just born with self control.

EDIT 2: Also, I believe, after a certain age, you don't deserve anymore chances. These people I'm talking about are always past 21 when they "find themselves" or whatever bullshit reason they give. These are people that have been given 100 chances by their parents, teachers, friends, neighbors, etc. And all of a sudden, they find "god" and they're cool with themselves? No, you should have a deep seeded root of shame of the life you've lived. I was once a fucking shithead, but I always had my self control, and I was always self aware, and I never treated anyone else like shit due to my habits. Fuck.

DISCLAIMER: In drunk hate mode.
03:05 AM on 04/19/13 
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Jsmall
May life always have flavor
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Fort Wayne, Indiana
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I'm not really a religious person, but I can see why people with substance abuse problems gravitate towards a belief system.

In most branches of Christian theology, you are redeemed of your past sins the moment you turn your life over to God. This is because Jesus's death on the cross is payment for your friends' poor decisions. A lot of people honestly have a hard time living with themselves once see how messed up their past lives were and because of that it makes an ideology such as Christianity more appealing to a recovering drug addict.

A lot of drug and alcohol wellness programs do put the idea of faith out there. Sometimes if it's an inpatient program you'll have bibles or the counselor will encourage people to balance the 7 areas of wellness (which includes spirtuality). And often you'll have a "saved" former addict in a substance abuse support group. However, it is something that does work sometimes and I have seen friends who have kicked the habit because of Jesus. But both of them ended up turning into super judgmental and hateful jerks
05:41 AM on 04/19/13 
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Portugal4142
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Basically what the person above me said. They find purpose and strength in faith. Self control varies from person to person. You may have a lot of it, but I'm sure you have less of something else. We're all different, all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Some people do that stuff for attention, but I'd much rather see them advertising their faith than hiding their addiction.
05:50 AM on 04/19/13 
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open mind
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anchorage
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a big part of getting and staying sober is learning to accept yourself again/for the first time. if a belief in god helps with that who (other then your hardcore atheist) gives a shit?
06:17 AM on 04/19/13 
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xxemo_kittyxx
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Growing up my parents were completely against alcohol due to their religion and that can partly explain why I've been sober all my life. I thought this thread was going to challenge me into justifying that, but I'm glad it didn't. I completely agree with what you said - although I do believe that applies to all other self-indulgent ("sinful") behaviours too - especially ones that restrict the rights of others. As someone who grew up with the judgments and inconsistencies of those who tried to force religion upon me, I find the idea of redemption through sheer belief rather unjust as well. I think everyone should be responsible for their actions, and that responsibility should translate to your transcendent outcomes as well. You can't erase what you've done simply because you've acknowledged some higher power forgives you. Forgiveness itself, to me, is having the opportunity to stay alive to do good things that can benefit others, maybe even change their lives for the better. If faith can allow you hope to be able to do that, then it's all good. Otherwise, you're just fooling your sad, sorry self.
06:36 AM on 04/19/13 
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Wutz
Don't Worry, I'm A Pilot
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Just to piggy-back on to what the cats before me said:

A lot of people need that extra "life purpose" to get sober. Imagine trying to convince a junky that there's nothing to live for but should do the damn-near insurmountable task of getting clean.

If there's no forgiveness, no physical/earthly reward for changing, and nothing past this life to live for; why change?

That's why there's a religious element to most addiction recovery programs.

A large component of addiction recovery is apology and earning forgiveness. Many have to apologize to everyone they've ever hurt through their addictions. Most of those people don't offer them forgiveness. Humans have a desire/need for a clean conscience and guilt free life. If you have an all-forgiving, merciful God who will accept all your past and future failures (provided you truly are remorseful), then the desire for human-to-human forgiveness is lessened and an unforgiving sister, father, or ex isn't as much of a derailing factor.

That said: every time anyone posts religious stuff online it makes me fuckin' furious.

It's exactly the same thing as saying "Happy birthday to my little two-year-old miracle. Life was so empty before you were in my life." Really? I didn't realize your two-year-old had a twitter account. Maybe that sort of interaction would be more meaningful if you just said those things to your social-media-savvy toddler in person.

It's an outward sign that person is broadcasting in the hopes that others see that person the way they'd like to be seen (whether or not the image they're projecting is a reflection of reality is another story - sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't).

It's a show of insecurity.

If you're really so truly godly (or happy you're a mother, or in love with your boyfriend of three-months, etc.) why do you need to hold up a billboard saying it? Shouldn't we be able to tell by your actions?
06:48 AM on 04/19/13 
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2's&3's
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Dumb thing to be angry about. Maybe you mad because Jesus only kind of loves you.
10:13 AM on 04/19/13 
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RyanPm40
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NH
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"I'm angry because a belief in a higher power is helping addicts become better people"

.. is that about right? I would understand your view if they actually aren't sober now and are just bullshitting to brag/show how religious and great they are, but if it actually helps them cope and keeps them in check.. who cares?
10:44 AM on 04/19/13 
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Dino Day
For the Glory of Humanity
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Philadelphia, PA
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My oldest sister (who is 25 now) used to do so many bad shit when she was 13. We lived in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. She would have her guy friends over when my parents were at work and steal my Dad's beer. Nights where she would sneak out to meet up with her friends and do drugs and drink. It got out of hand for a 13 year old girl. She ended up in a juvenile facility for a while, but when she got out it got worse. She would beat up my Mom and steal her car and take her friends out, played chicken one time and actually wrecked the car, and she got into drugs more heavily. My parents could not take it anymore so the whole family packed up and we moved to Georgia but she ran away a few times back to Minnesota (don't know how). Then a year later we moved to Florida and from there she cleaned up her act.

Through all of that, she did not turn to religion or claimed that it helped her.
11:04 AM on 04/19/13 
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Ollie McKraut
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In summary: OP is a dumb douche
11:05 AM on 04/19/13 
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suicidesaints
A Million F@$% Diamonds
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I can see where the OP is coming from. I have a bitter taste in my mouth about people that use religion as a way of claiming that it was the solution to all their problems... and it could be the solution to yours too.

No one/thing can make someone give up an addiction. It's a personal thing and it has to come from within. I think that what some people are calling "god" is just them finding self control. They may say/think that they've found "god" and they might have, but what they've really found is the will within.
11:17 AM on 04/19/13 
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seymourbuttes
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Dumb thing to be angry about. Maybe you mad because Jesus only kind of loves you.

You hit the nail on the head.
11:18 AM on 04/19/13 
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seymourbuttes
I'd do anything for a free t-shirt
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Seattle
Male - 23 Years Old
My oldest sister (who is 25 now) used to do so many bad shit when she was 13. We lived in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. She would have her guy friends over when my parents were at work and steal my Dad's beer. Nights where she would sneak out to meet up with her friends and do drugs and drink. It got out of hand for a 13 year old girl. She ended up in a juvenile facility for a while, but when she got out it got worse. She would beat up my Mom and steal her car and take her friends out, played chicken one time and actually wrecked the car, and she got into drugs more heavily. My parents could not take it anymore so the whole family packed up and we moved to Georgia but she ran away a few times back to Minnesota (don't know how). Then a year later we moved to Florida and from there she cleaned up her act.

Through all of that, she did not turn to religion or claimed that it helped her.

You know, I had a similar story. Not to that extent, but when I was a younger I was a little shitmonger. Sounds like your sister just grew up, like I did. I made no excuses for my actions, and didn't ask for forgiveness, because I knew there was no forgiving the things I had done. I was ashamed of it.
11:19 AM on 04/19/13 
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seymourbuttes
I'd do anything for a free t-shirt
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Seattle
Male - 23 Years Old
In summary: OP is a dumb douche

Yes.

Even though 75% of people can see where I'm coming from.
11:19 AM on 04/19/13 
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seymourbuttes
I'd do anything for a free t-shirt
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Seattle
Male - 23 Years Old
I can see where the OP is coming from. I have a bitter taste in my mouth about people that use religion as a way of claiming that it was the solution to all their problems... and it could be the solution to yours too.

No one/thing can make someone give up an addiction. It's a personal thing and it has to come from within. I think that what some people are calling "god" is just them finding self control. They may say/think that they've found "god" and they might have, but what they've really found is the will within.

Pretty much summed up what I meant to say in a lot fewer words.



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