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06:31 PM on 04/30/14
#1
kianacarly
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I feel like there are valid criticisms of Beyonce but that is not one of them. Actually, one of my teachers teaches a black feminism class where she apparently drags Beyonce and I kinda wanna take it and see what she has to say. I've talked to some feminists about the sexualization of popstars and they make a couple points against it that at least lead to good discussion, but calling someone a slut is not the way to go. Either way it's limiting the choices of women and it's annoying. Feels like we can never win tbh
06:38 PM on 04/30/14
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kianacarly
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it all really depends on your interpretation of sex positivity, and also, i guess, whether you think bey's framing of such in marriage (a patriarchy's institution) is a conservative, patriarchical act
I do think it largely comes down to views on sex positivity. I side eye some things on her album and I don't agree with Beyonce's feminism all the time and I think she's open to criticism just like everyone else (despite some acting like she's the queen who can do no wrong), but there's a way to have this discussion without calling someone a slut and Warpaint failed to actually say anything interesting or worthy of discussion. It's really telling that they just resorted to sexist language (or Theresa, I suppose, since it's her interview).
06:39 PM on 04/30/14
#3
kianacarly
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Yeah. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with hypersexualization in music. You can discuss sex and/or be sexual in regards to music but it also can be expressed in different ways. It's OK to not like it and at least explain why. But the severity and the aggression in the choice of words and phrasing here just seemed more condescending and rude than anything. They can't be taken seriously if they talk like that.
ia
06:49 PM on 04/30/14
#4
kianacarly
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What is the point of getting outraged over words? Who honestly cares about this?
07:08 PM on 04/30/14
#5
kianacarly
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Black feminism? I knew there were feminist classes but now they are race specific? Is there enough feminist stuff that should only be focused on black women to make up an entire course of study?
Yes, because white feminists often speak over woc feminists (whether or not they mean to) so it's important for woc to have a place to discuss their issues since what they experience is vastly different than that of white feminists. Before these classes you had many upper class white women leading the discussions on feminism and talking about their issues, often neglecting woc. It's also a space for woc to read black feminist literature. Like bell hooks alone could have an entire course of study tbh
07:23 PM on 04/30/14
#6
kianacarly
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Just wanted to say that you're really articulate without being rude or condescending, and I think that's awesome.

Pretty disappointed by this, though. It sucks that people feel the need to be so abrasive when making a point, especially like this.
ty! I usually feel like I'm really inarticulate actually so that's nice to hear haha.
08:09 PM on 04/30/14
#7
kianacarly
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Despite my general indifference towards her most of the time (except for my jam 4), I think Beyonce is putting a positive message out there that people need to hear. Even if some aspects of her feminism are not for me, if she can get people into feminism and learning about it and understanding that 'feminism' is not some dirty, man-hating word, I can get on board with that. I think that's awesome. I'm a youngin so my first exposure to feminism was through Xtina when I was a kid and it definitely opened my eyes and made an impact on me. Messages in pop culture do make a difference, and I'm glad that Beyonce is out there starting a discussion. No matter what someone thinks about sexual positivity, I'd hope that they wouldn't entirely dismiss what Bey is doing. So many popstars won't even admit to being a feminist because they're scared of alienating fans, so I'm glad that she's out there proudly wearing the title. I can also see how owning her sexuality makes her feel empowered on an individual level as well. I think it's a complex issue. You can say what she's doing is informed by the male gaze and the patriarchy, but then that opens a whole other can of worms and is more complicated than I'm equipped to talk about haha

Let's us all just bask in the glory that is the Knowles family

12:22 AM on 05/01/14
#8
kianacarly
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I'm not trying to tack it onto everyone who enjoys music that doesn't glorify that subject matter though. I'm only saying I see that as being the case with the people I personally know.
I get you in the sense that rap is often vilified while people ignore the wrongdoings of other genres, or they act like some white artists are the savior of the genre by being the first not to rap about sex and material objects when that's not the case. People often assume that rappers are only going on about those kinds of things when many of them rap about their oppression and injustices. Plus, many people don't take into account that many rappers grew from poverty and to them rapping about material objects is a sign of success and how they came up from nothing. Likewise, woc's bodies are often seen as raunchy and vulgar while white women's are ~just art, or being edgy. I'm sure others will disagree with me on that tho. I'm not saying everyone does it, but it happens often enough. We all participate in the patriarchy somehow, so idk why Beyonce often gets singled out for it.

Many people also feel like they have to put down one type of person to uplift another. Like, "Lorde doesn't need sex to sell, unlike so and so!!" I don't mind if people think it's cool that she's taking a different approach to her music than some other mainstream acts, but it bothers me when they put down other popstars in the process, especially since Lorde has been really good recently about professing her love for some of those female popstars. It's people unnecessarily pitting women against each other which is not a good look. There's room for all types of acts in music. Deciding not to go the uber sexual route doesn't make anyone a better or worse person, it's just a different approach.



Also, dang, that is some major backtracking Theresa is doing. hmm.
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