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06:19 PM on 05/28/14 
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Love As Arson
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The cultural make-up of, say, pop-punk contributes to the misogyny of the overall culture, in which women are objects and the man is the nice guy, who, by virtue of being the nice guy, deserves the woman in the end, Whenever there's violence in the black community, the media looks to hip-hop as something which fuels the violence. Similarly, when looking at the Isla Vist violence, is pop-punk the musical reflection of white,male privilege, insofar as it manifests in songs about strangling women, women being undeserving, women as something which one gets? I think it's time for the white community to examine its proclivities and the degree to which they're culpable for the violence at large. This can apply more broadly to, for example, bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan and Every Time I Die - bands, which, incidentally, I liked at one point - but which must explain themselves and must account for how their people act within the context of the discourse they indulge in, and provide the context for.
06:57 PM on 05/28/14 
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MattRM
She didn't turn out to be that cool
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Interesting thoughts. I'm sure people will come in here and shit on the OP, but these are definitely questions worth talking about. Not sure where my opinion stands, because I think there are some pop-punk bands that just write lyrics about desire or unrequited love, which doesn't always end up being misogynistic, and is more often just angsty and self-deprecating - but when it comes to bands like The Story So Far, I can definitely see how this argument applies.
07:01 PM on 05/28/14 
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Baines on Toast
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At some point in my life, I have listened to pop-punk, TDEP and ETID. I can categorically confirm I have not once had thoughts of killing seven people because their music has distorted my perceptive reality. I'm sure there are many others like me who could testify the same thing. I sure hope you have evidence which supports your assertiveness over pop-punk contributing to misogyny, such as a case study, and that you are not merely a incipient internet theorist.

The media looks to Hip Hop as a fuel to violence because the media is comprised of asinine individuals who, when devoid of ideas on what to present to the masses in the aftermath of a tragedy, immediately target a subculture for blame. Similarly, you're now doing the same thing on a website with foundations in pop-punk. Its almost as if you're attempting to be controversial.

I'm interested to know what your take is on individuals who console in the music they listen to? Individuals who have confessed to the fact they wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for specific bands/artists, some of which fit into the genres you have specified.
07:05 PM on 05/28/14 
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MattRM
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At some point in my life, I have listened to pop-punk, TDEP and ETID. I can categorically confirm I have not once had thoughts of killing seven people because their music has distorted my perceptive reality. I'm sure there are many others like me who could testify the same thing. I sure hope you have evidence which supports your assertiveness over pop-punk contributing to misogyny, such as a case study, and that you are not merely a incipient internet theorist.

The media looks to Hip Hop as a fuel to violence because the media is comprised of asinine individuals who, when devoid of ideas on what to present to the masses in the aftermath of a tragedy, immediately target a subculture for blame. Similarly, you're now doing the same thing on a website with foundations in pop-punk. Its almost as if you're attempting to be controversial.

I'm interested to know what your take is on individuals who console in the music they listen to? Individuals who have confessed to the fact they wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for specific bands/artists, some of which fit into the genres you have specified.
I'm pretty sure no one's suggesting that listening to pop-punk makes people want to kill women. Just that some of the beliefs that, taken to their extremes, might be behind violence like that of Elliot Rodger, might also be present to a lesser extreme in lyrics and mentalities of certain bands or songs within our broader "scene."

07:13 PM on 05/28/14 
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jusscali
EMO REVIVAL IS FOR BITCHES
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What about the song? He's talking about women that don't have any respect for themselves...I guess I just don't see that as misogynystic per se.
07:16 PM on 05/28/14 
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Baines on Toast
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I'm pretty sure no one's suggesting that listening to pop-punk makes people want to kill women. Just that some of the beliefs that, taken to their extremes, might be behind violence like that of Elliot Rodger, might also be present to a lesser extreme in lyrics and mentalities of certain bands or songs within our broader "scene."


Surely individualist traits are the most significant factor when it comes to taking things to the extreme? I don't buy the notion that a specific genre, artist or even song like the one you've posted is the root cause of a problem.
07:19 PM on 05/28/14 
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MattRM
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Surely individualist traits are the most significant factor when it comes to taking things to the extreme? I don't buy the notion that a specific genre, artist or even song like the one you've posted is the root cause of a problem.
Again, like I just said - I don't think anybody is trying to pinpoint music as the root cause. Just that the social phenomenon of misogyny that can lead to violence when taken to extremes is also present, and often unchecked or unrecognized as such, in music that is widely praised around these parts.
07:21 PM on 05/28/14 
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MattRM
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What about the song? He's talking about women that don't have any respect for themselves...I guess I just don't see that as misogynystic per se.
It's a man shaming young women for the choices that they make, and suggesting that women in college need to live up to his own standard of respectability in order to be attractive or appealing.
07:25 PM on 05/28/14 
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Jake Jenkins
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What about the song? He's talking about women that don't have any respect for themselves...I guess I just don't see that as misogynystic per se.
why does a woman sleeping with men mean she doesnt have respect for herself?
07:28 PM on 05/28/14 
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Baines on Toast
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Again, like I just said - I don't think anybody is trying to pinpoint music as the root cause. Just that the social phenomenon of misogyny that can lead to violence when taken to extremes is also present, and often unchecked or unrecognized as such, in music that is widely praised around these parts.


In regards to it being checked for, why should such a process occur? People have been listening to pop-punk for decades now and I personally can't recall a single circumstance of an individual committing violence and it being attributed to the genre. In fact, pop-punk typically evokes polar opposite emotions to violence.
07:30 PM on 05/28/14 
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MattRM
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In regards to it being checked for, why should such a process occur? People have been listening to pop-punk for decades now and I personally can't recall a single circumstance of an individual committing violence and it being attributed to the genre. In fact, pop-punk typically evokes polar opposite emotions to violence.
"Unchecked" not as in censored before release, "unchecked" as in nobody notices or talks about it. You're missing the point so much that it's not even worth engaging with you at this point. Nobody is attributing violence solely to pop-punk music here.
07:34 PM on 05/28/14 
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theguy77
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The cultural make-up of, say, pop-punk contributes to the misogyny of the overall culture, in which women are objects and the man is the nice guy, who, by virtue of being the nice guy, deserves the woman in the end, Whenever there's violence in the black community, the media looks to hip-hop as something which fuels the violence. Similarly, when looking at the Isla Vist violence, is pop-punk the musical reflection of white,male privilege, insofar as it manifests in songs about strangling women, women being undeserving, women as something which one gets? I think it's time for the white community to examine its proclivities and the degree to which they're culpable for the violence at large. This can apply more broadly to, for example, bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan and Every Time I Die - bands, which, incidentally, I liked at one point - but which must explain themselves and must account for how their people act within the context of the discourse they indulge in, and provide the context for.

im using a very loose descirption of pop-punk for this but Glassjaw is a big example of this
07:36 PM on 05/28/14 
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Baines on Toast
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"Unchecked" not as in censored before release, "unchecked" as in nobody notices or talks about it. You're missing the point so much that it's not even worth engaging with you at this point. Nobody is attributing violence solely to pop-punk music here.

My comment was applicable to both definitions of unchecked. Why should it be talked about when its not presented itself as an issue?


"The cultural make-up of, say, pop-punk contributes to the misogyny of the overall culture."


That to me reads a lot like misogyny being attributed to Pop-Punk. I asked for evidential proof of such a claim, but I doubt it will ever manifest.
07:37 PM on 05/28/14 
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theguy77
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At some point in my life, I have listened to pop-punk, TDEP and ETID. I can categorically confirm I have not once had thoughts of killing seven people because their music has distorted my perceptive reality. I'm sure there are many others like me who could testify the same thing. I sure hope you have evidence which supports your assertiveness over pop-punk contributing to misogyny, such as a case study, and that you are not merely a incipient internet theorist.

what's so wrong with this? do you always have to have a scholarly approach to being offended by something or noticing a trend in a specific movement?

Quote:
The media looks to Hip Hop as a fuel to violence because the media is comprised of asinine individuals who, when devoid of ideas on what to present to the masses in the aftermath of a tragedy, immediately target a subculture for blame. Similarly, you're now doing the same thing on a website with foundations in pop-punk. Its almost as if you're attempting to be controversial.

I'm interested to know what your take is on individuals who console in the music they listen to? Individuals who have confessed to the fact they wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for specific bands/artists, some of which fit into the genres you have specified.

he's not blaming a subculture, he's insinuating that the lyrical tendencies of a particular style of artist can, in fact, have an influence on some of its' listeners, especially in a genre that has always been marketed toward a younger and more impressionable crowd. no one is saying all these 16 year olds are gonna go kill 7 people. but if a teenager looks up to artists who constantly play victim in an ironically possessive and demanding sort of way to the female object of each song, and feels as though he/she can resonate with such misguided bitterness on a subject that many teens can relate to, it can negatively shape the way they view the opposite sex and handle relationships with them.

you can't honestly be saying you don't think it's common for pop-punk/poppy post-hardcore bands to approach break up songs in an attitude akin to "she was mine and how dare her slip out of my grasp, here are all my wildest fantasies of what should happen to her etc. etc."
07:50 PM on 05/28/14 
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Baines on Toast
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what's so wrong with this? do you always have to have a scholarly approach to being offended by something or noticing a trend in a specific movement?

In an ideal world, yes. Especially when it comes down to something like this which essentially falls into the psychological spectrum.



he's not blaming a subculture, he's insinuating that the lyrical tendencies of a particular style of artist can, in fact, have an influence on some of its' listeners, especially in a genre that has always been marketed toward a younger and more impressionable crowd. no one is saying all these 16 year olds are gonna go kill 7 people. but if a teenager looks up to artists who constantly play victim in an ironically possessive and demanding sort of way to the female object of each song, and feels as though he/she can resonate with such misguided bitterness on a subject that many teens can relate to, it can shape the way they view the opposite sex and handle relationships with them in a negative way.

So you're suggesting that listening to music can nurture a misogynist mindset? I thoroughly disagree. It's not as simplistic as that.


you can't honestly be saying you don't think it's common for pop-punk/poppy post-hardcore bands to approach break up songs in an attitude akin to "she was mine and how dare her slip out of my grasp, here are all my wildest fantasies of what should happen to her etc. etc."

Unsure as to how this has been derived from what I've said. I'm more than aware of what the lyrical themes of those genres are..



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