09:06 AM on 09/24/12
"Thunder Road," "Born to Run," and "Jungleland" are all better songs than anything Dylan, Lennon, or McCartney ever wrote. No one else is even close.
You are a moron if you think Born to Run is better than Imagine, Let It Be, The Long and Winding Road, Hey Jude, and a million other songs by Lennon and McCartney. And I really like Bruce.
11:27 AM on 09/24/12
We can move outside of Lennon and McCartney. Billy Joel anyone?
11:44 AM on 09/24/12
How is it not? How does "Born to Run" or "Thunder Road" not surpass any of those songs in sheer degree of songcraft? The level of musicianship is higher, the melodies are better and more innovative (eschewing the verse-chorus dynamic, but flowing like nothing else out there), and the lyrics are poetic in a way that Lennon and McCartney were never able to capture.
Just look at the differences between the two artists' most epic numbers: "Hey Jude" is built around a single melodic hook, and yeah, it's a damn good one, but it just repeats and repeats, with little variation. "Jungleland" is built around a lyrical arc and numerous musical setpieces from key band members, and only one line of the entire song ever repeats. I know what the "Greatest of All Time" lists told you, and they're justified in saying that because 1) Lennon and McCartney wrote undeniable great songs and 2) those songs reached a higher level of cultural importance than anything before or since. But as far as strict songwriting is concerned, they aren't even in the same stratosphere as Bruce. Only Dylan really is, and he's got everyone on lyrical prowess, but he has never been the melodist that Springsteen is.
Blackbird, Yesterday, A Day in the Life, In My Life. Anything written by Billy Joel. You cannot win this argument. Every critic, magazine, and real musician would side with The Beatles over Bruce Springsteen. I love Bruce but cmon man, get a grip. I guess this is what I should of expected coming into this thread though.
01:37 PM on 09/24/12
Dude, you can't win the argument solely on the "most people say it so it must be true" mantra. You have supplied no evidence in the songs you are naming that makes them better than the ones I am naming, which leads me to believe that either A) you don't actually know anything about songwriting or musicianship or B) you have been told one thing for so long that you've been brainwashed into believing it's true, even if you can't think critically about it or form a cohesive argument on its behalf.
Your sweeping generalizations only discredit you further: every critic? Thomas and I are both a part of that population, and yet here we are siding against you. Every "real" musician? Have you ever played in a band or worked with any professional musicians? I'd actually argue that Bruce and The E-Street Band are more respected in the musical community, specifically because of the number of virtuoso talents on its roster. I'm sure none of them would deride the Beatles either (other than Ringo, who is, deservedly or undeservedly, a running joke), but none of them had the sheer technical ability of Clarence Clemons or Roy Bittan. 9/10 saxophonists, at least in my experience, would take Bruce over the Beatles. Are they not "real" musicians? And goddamn, I think a few of the bands in your "favorite artists" lists would have some choice words for your blanket statement as well.
Also, anything written by Billy Joel?! I love the guy, but just about anyone will recognize how inconsistent he is as an album maker. The Stranger is one of the 25 greatest records of all time, but even that doesn't have the thematic arc, the musical splendor, or the breathtaking flow of Born to Run. But you say Billy never wrote a song that WASN'T better than Bruce's greats? Are you trying to say that "We Didn't Start the Fire" or "I Go to Extremes" are better songs than "Thunder Road"? Speaking of statements any critic or real musician would laugh at...
And yeah, you should have expected Bruce bias in this thread, but what you shouldn't have expected was that I was just going to let you laugh at my claim, call me a moron for making it, and then let you get away without defending your arguments. Naming song titles may seem significant, but I can do that right back at you. How about "Backstreets," "Rosalita," "Incident on 57th Street," "Badlands," "Darkness on the Edge of Town," "The River," "Atlantic City," "Stolen Car," "Lost in the Flood"? All of those songs have at least one aspect (if not many) that places them above all or most Beatles songs in my mind, and I could argue why for all of them.
I'm at work currently but when I get home I'll post an actual response.
01:38 PM on 09/24/12
At least his daughter is hott.
03:13 PM on 09/24/12
5 albums above Born to Run. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/li...album-19691231
5 songs above Born to Run. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/li...i-say-19691231
The combo of Lennon and McCartney and Lennon by himself above Springsteen. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pi...-time-20110315
All voted by writers, musicians, editors, fans.
Born to Run reached only 23 on the Billboard Hot 100.
"Biggest All-Times Sales For A Band
The Beatles have amassed the greatest sales for any group. All-time sales have been estimated by EMI at over one billion discs and tapes to date. In 2001, they had been certified for album sales of 163.5 million in the US alone. The band has numerous other world records, including that for most recorded song - Lennon and McCartney's "Yesterday" had 1,600 versions recorded between 1965 and January 1, 1986. Also, their album titled 1, released on November 13, 2000, sold 13.5 million copies around the world in its first month, making it the fastest-selling album."
Look, most of this is opinion. But it's nearly everyones opinion.
03:37 PM on 09/24/12
Okay so since the only two ways of objectively judging an artist are Rolling Stone lists and sales, was the best record released last year 21 orrrrrrr 21? I'm confused.
So all these people work for Rolling Stone right? Voters: Bill Adler (Biographer, Run-DMC), Lou Adler (Producer), Vince Aletti (Writer), Art Alexakis (Everclear), Pelle Almqvist (The Hives), Billy Altman (Writer), Jeff Ament (Pearl Jam), Roger Ames (Former chairman and CEO, Warner Music Group), Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day), Nicholaus Arson (The Hives), Dick Asher (Former CEO, Polygram Records), James Austin (Former A&R, Rhino Records), Michael Azerrad (Writer), Irving Azoff (Executive chairman, Live Nation), Martin Bandier (Chairman and CEO, Sony/ATV), Devendra Banhart, Peter Barakan (Radio host), Johnny Barbis (Chairman, Rocket Music), Ken Barnes (Writer), Kevin Barnes (Of Montreal), Frank Barsalona (Former consultant, William Morris Agency), Rostam Batmanglij (Vampire Weekend), David Bauder (Writer), Beck, Jules Belkin (Former president, Belkin Productions),Andy Bell (Erasure), Bill Belmont (Former VP, international operations, Fantasy Records), Bill Bentley (Director, A&R, Vanguard Records), Steve Berkowitz (Senior VP, A&R, Legacy Recordings), James Bernard (Co-founder, The Source and XXL magazines), Cathy Bernardy Jones (Former editor, Goldmine magazine), Guy Berryman (Coldplay), Jim Bessman (Writer), Les Bider (Former chairman and CEO, Warner/Chappell Music), Scott Billington (VP, A&R, Rounder Records), Mark Binelli (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Rodney Bingenheimer (Radio personality), David Bither (Senior VP, Nonesuch Records), Hal Blaine (Drummer), Jerry Blavat (Radio and TV personality), Mary J. Blige, Nathan Brackett (Deputy managing editor, Rolling Stone), Laurent Brancowitz (Phoenix), Harriett Brand (Former senior VP, Universal Music Group), Jon Bream (Writer), Isaac Brock (Modest Mouse), Harold Bronson (Co-founder, Rhino Records), David Browne (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Duncan Browne (COO, Newbury Comics), Jackson Browne, Jonny Buckland (Coldplay), Bebe Buell, Solomon Burke (1940-2010), Cliff Burnstein (Co-founder, Q Prime), James Burton (Guitarist), Geezer Butler (Black Sabbath), Jerry Butler (R&B singer), Joe Butler (The Lovin' Spoonful), Tom Calderone (President, VH1), Mike Carabello (Santana), Jon Caramanica (Pop critic, The New York Times), Patrick Carney (The Black Keys), Rosemary Carroll (Entertainment lawyer), Will Champion (Coldplay), Brian Chase (Yeah Yeah Yeahs), Marshall Chess (Producer), Deborah Chessler (Songwriter), Robert Christgau (Writer), Lauren Christy (Producer), Jarvis Cocker (Pulp), Mitchell Cohen (VP, A&R, Verve Records), Chris Connelly (Correspondent, ESPN), Tom Constanten (Pianist-composer), Tré Cool (Green Day), Gerard Cosloy (Co-owner, Matador Records), Tommy Couch (Sr. President, Malaco Music Group), Wayne Coyne (The Flaming Lips), Bill Crandall (Head of content, Rolling Stone Online), Cameron Crowe (Writer-director), Will Dana (Managing editor, Rolling Stone) Britt Daniel (Spoon), Clive Davis (Chief creative officer, Sony Music Worldwide), Anthony DeCurtis )Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Ron Delsener (Chairman, Live Nation – New York), John Densmore (The Doors), Don DeVito (Producer (1939-2011)), Rob Dickins (Founder, Instant Karma Records), Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden), Dion DiMucci, Dr. John, Jon Dolan (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Antoine "Fats" Domino, Jancee Dunn (Writer), The Edge (U2), Ben Edmonds (Writer), Gavin Edwards (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Graham Edwards (Songwriter and producer), Jenny Eliscu (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Missy Elliott, Michael Endelman (Former senior editor, Rolling Stone), Thomas Erdelyi (Ramones), Melissa Etheridge, Suzan Evans (Former executive director, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame), Phil Everly (Everly Brothers), Bob Ezrin (Producer), Art Fein (Author, TV talk-show host), Danny Fields (Writer, former Stooges and Ramones manager), Jason Fine (Editor at large, Rolling Stone), Jim Fishel (Producer), Bill Flanagan (Editorial director, VH1), Flea (Red Hot Chili Peppers), Chet Flippo (Editorial director, Country Music Television), Jason Flom (President, Lava Records), Caleb Followill (Kings of Leon), Jared Followill (Kings of Leon), Matthew Followill (Kings of Leon), Nathan Followill (Kings of Leon), Ben Fong-Torres (Writer, broadcaster), Richard Foos Founder, (Shout! Factory), Pete Frame (Rock genealogist), Chris Frantz (Talking Heads), Nicole Frehsée (Former assistant editor, Rolling Stone), David Fricke (Senior writer, Rolling Stone), John Frusciante (Red Hot Chili Peppers), Richie Furay (Buffalo Springfield), Elysa Gardner (Writer), Art Garfunkel, Rob Garza(Thievery Corporation), David Geffen (Co-founder, DreamWorks), Gregg Geller (Producer), Gary Gersh (Founder, Strummer Recordings), Andy Gershon (Executive VP, Epic Records), Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top), Charlie Gillett (Radio broadcaster, BBC (1942- 2010)), Mikal Gilmore (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Daniel Glass (Founder, Glassnote Records), Gerry Goffin (Songwriter, producer), Jeff Gold (Owner, recordmecca.com), Michael Goldberg (Editor in chief, neumu.net), Gary Graff (Writer), Andy Greene (Associate editor, Rolling Stone Online), Ellie Greenwich (Songwriter (1940-2009)), Peter Guralnick (Writer), Brett Gurewitz (Founder, Epitaph Records), Kirk Hammett (Metallica), Albert Hammond Jr. (The Strokes), Davey Havok (AFI), Jim Henke (VP of exhibitions and curatorial affairs, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame), Will Hermes (Senior critic, Rolling Stone), Raoul Hernandez (Music editor/senior editor, Austin Chronicle), James Hetfield (Metallica), Brian Hiatt (Senior writer, Rolling Stone), Robert Hilburn (Former pop-music critic, Los Angeles Times), Michael Hill (Writer, TV-music consultant), Chris Hillman (The Byrds), David Hinckley (TV critic, New York Daily News), Christian Hoard (Senior editor, Rolling Stone), Susanna Hoffs (The Bangles), Mark Hoppus (Blink-182), Bruce Hornsby, Robert Hull (Former executive producer, Time-Life Music), James Hunter (Writer), Scott Ian (Anthrax), Don Ienner (Former chairman and CEO, Sony Music0 U.S.), Bruce Iglauer (President, Alligator Records), Jim James (My Morning Jacket), Bob Jamieson (Former chairman, RCA Music Group), Chris Jasper (Artist, president, Gold City Music), Nick Jonas (Jonas Brothers), Jeff Jones (CEO, Apple Corps), Craig Kallman (Chairman and CEO, Atlantic Records), John David Kalodner (Former A&R executive, Geffen Records), Tony Kanal (No Doubt), Peter Katsis (Manager-partner, Prospect Park), Jorma Kaukonen (Jefferson Airplane), Lenny Kaye (Guitarist), Mark Kemp (Writer), Kid Cudi (Rapper), Carole King, Marc Kirkeby (Music archivist, writer), Howie Klein (Former president, 415 and Reprise Records), Ezra Koenig (Vampire Weekend), Greg Kot (Writer), Howard Kramer (Director of curatorial affairs, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame), Bob Krasnow (Producer), Lenny Kravitz, Damian Kulash (OK Go), Miranda Lambert, Andrew Lauder (Music executive), David Leaf (TV writer, producer), Brenda Lee, David Lefkowitz (Composer), Adam Levine (Maroon 5), Arthur Levy (Writer), Joe Levy (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Alan Light (Writer), Lil Wayne, Amy Linden (Writer), Kurt Loder (Writer), Greg Loescher (Former editor and publisher, Goldmine magazine), Roy Lott (Former president, Virgin Records), Leigh Lust (Former VP of A&R, Atlantic Records), Stan Lynch (Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers), Melissa Maerz (Former senior editor, Rolling Stone), Stephen Malkmus, Shirley Manson (Garbage), Ray Manzarek (The Doors), Thomas Mars (Phoenix), Chris Martin (Coldplay), Mac McCaughan (Co-founder, Merge Records), Joe McEwen (VP, A&R, Concord Music Group), Paul McGuinness (Manager, U2), Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac), Brad Mehldau (Jazz pianist), Colin Meloy (The Decemberists), Peter Mensch (Co-owner, Q Prime), M.I.A., Milo Miles (Critic, NPR commentator), Kirk Miller (Former associate editor, Rolling Stone), David Mills (TV writer, The Wire(1952-2010)), Martin Mills (Founder, Beggars Banquet Records), Willie Mitchell (Musician-producer (1928-2010)), Moby, Joseph Modeliste (The Meters), Tom Moon (Writer), Tom Morello (The Nightwatchman), Fabrizio Moretti (The Strokes), Bruce Morrow (Radio personality), Steve Morse (Writer), Alan Moulder (Producer-engineer), Jason Mraz, Dave Navarro (Jane’s Addiction), Tom Nawrocki (Former assistant managing editor, Rolling Stone), Ed Needham (Former managing editor, Rolling Stone), Ashley Newton (Executive VP, A&R, RCA Records), Claude Nobs (Founder-director, the Montreaux Jazz Festival), Yoko Ono, Mo Ostin (Chairman emeritus, Warner Brothers Records), Andy Paley (Musician-producer), John Parrish (Musician-producer), George Pelecanos (Writer), Michael Penn, Claudia Perry (Writer), Michelle Phillips (The Mamas and the Papas), Tony Pipitone (President, Warner Special Projects), Steve Pond (Writer), George Porter Jr. (The Meters), Robert Pruter (R&B editor, Goldmine magazine), Parke Puterbaugh (Writer), Questlove (The Roots), Steve Ralbovsky (Senior VP, A&R, RCA Records), Johnny Ramone (Ramones (1948-2004)), Marky Ramone (Ramones), Sylvia Rhone (Former chairman and CEO, Elektra Records), Jonathan Ringen (Assistant managing editor, Rolling Stone), Cory Robbins (President, Robbins Entertainment), Ira Robbins (Editorial director, MJI Programming, Premiere Radio Network), Robbie Robertson (The Band), Chris Robinson (The Black Crowes), Cynthia Robinson (Sly and the Family Stone), Bob Rock (Producer), Jody Rosen (Senior critic, Rolling Stone), Rick Rubin (Producer, co-founder, Def Jam), Paul Samwell-Smith (Producer; the Yardbirds), Bob Santelli (Executive director, the Grammy Museum), Austin Scaggs (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Timothy B. Schmit (Eagles), Fred Schneider (The B-52's), Jordan Schur (President, Suretone Records), Andy Schwartz (Writer), Bud Scoppa (Writer), Gene Sculatti (Writer), John Sebastian (The Lovin' Spoonful), Pete Seeger, Joel Selvin (Music critic, San Francisco Chronicle), Matt Serletic (Producer), Evan Serpick (Former associate editor, Rolling Stone), Paul Shaffer (Musical director, Late Show With David Letterman), Ron Shapiro (Co-founder, Plan A Media), Rob Sheffield (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Mike Shinoda (Linkin Park), Tom Silverman (Founder and CEO, Tommy Boy Records), Barbara Skydel (Senior VP, William Morris Agency (1940-2010)), Larry Sloven (Co-owner, executive producer, HighTone Records), Joe Smith (Chairman, Unison Productions), Britney Spears, Scott Spencer (Novelist), Scott Spock (Producer), Freddie Stewart (Sly and the Family Stone), Gary Stewart (Singer-songwriter (1945-2003)), Brian Stoltz (Funky Meters, the Neville Brothers, Bob Dylan), Neil Strauss (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Keith Strickland (The B-52's), Patrick Stump (Fall Out Boy), John Sykes (President, Clear Channel Entertainment Enterprises), Jeff Tamarkin (Writer), Corey Taylor (Slipknot), Al Teller (Former head, CBS, Columbia and RCA Records), Bruce Thomas (Elvis Costello and the Attractions), Touré (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Allen Toussaint (Producer-songwriter), Roy Trakin (Senior editor, Hits magazine), Jeff Tweedy (Wilco), Lars Ulrich (Metallica), Nick Valensi (The Strokes), Hilton Valentine (The Animals), Andrew VanWyngarden (MGMT), Steven Van Zandt, Tom Vickers (A&R consultant), Butch Vig (Garbage, producer), Phil Walden (Former president, Velocette Records (1940-2006)), Wale (Rapper), Barry Walters (Writer), Bill Ward (Black Sabbath), Gerard Way (My Chemical Romance), Harry Weinger (VP, A&R, Universal Music Enterprises), Eric Weisbard (Writer), Barry Weiss (CEO, Universal Republic, Island Def Jam Records), Hy Weiss (Founder, Old Town Records (1923-2007)), Steve Weitzman (President, SW Productions), Jann S. Wenner (Editor and publisher, Rolling Stone), Pete Wentz (Fall Out Boy), Tina Weymouth (Talking Heads), Joel Whitbur (President, Record Research), David Whitehead (Owner, Maine Road Management), David Wild (Contributing editor, Rolling Stone), Will.i.am, Lucinda Williams, Hal Willner (Music producer), Muff Winwood (Former president, Sony U.K. A&R), Douglas Wolk (Writer), Richard Wright (Pink Floyd (1943-2008)), Robert Wright, Howard Wuelfing (Howlin’ Wuelf Media), Adam Yauch (Beastie Boys)
03:40 PM on 09/24/12
I was going to listen to a Beatles record all the way through then I realized the Beatles don't have any records that I can listen to all the way through.
You should try harder, most people do it with no problem.
04:34 PM on 09/24/12
Do they though? I don't know how many of my friends who are "Beatles fans" have actually ever listened to an entire Beatles album.
Also I almost deleted your last comment because it was such a long block of text that I genuinely thought it was spam.
I know plenty of people who listen to Abbey Road or Sgt. Pepper's in full. I don't know man to each their own I guess. I will say though I miss Weinberg on Conan. Always thought his banter with him was more entertaining than Andy.