I feel like there are valid criticisms of Beyonce but that is not one of them. Actually, one of my teachers teaches a black feminism class where she apparently drags Beyonce and I kinda wanna take it and see what she has to say. I've talked to some feminists about the sexualization of popstars and they make a couple points against it that at least lead to good discussion, but calling someone a slut is not the way to go. Either way it's limiting the choices of women and it's annoying. Feels like we can never win tbh
it all really depends on your interpretation of sex positivity, and also, i guess, whether you think bey's framing of such in marriage (a patriarchy's institution) is a conservative, patriarchical act
I do think it largely comes down to views on sex positivity. I side eye some things on her album and I don't agree with Beyonce's feminism all the time and I think she's open to criticism just like everyone else (despite some acting like she's the queen who can do no wrong), but there's a way to have this discussion without calling someone a slut and Warpaint failed to actually say anything interesting or worthy of discussion. It's really telling that they just resorted to sexist language (or Theresa, I suppose, since it's her interview).
yeah, there's a conversation to be had about it all. i'm a very unabashed fan of her, but even i recognize the shortcomings in her particular brand of feminism..."ban bossy" or whatever comes to mind
I can't say I'm a fan of either Beyonce or Warpaint, but using the word "slut" was definitely poor form. At the same time, I'm weary of how even legitimately talented women in pop music eventually go down the rabbit hole of expressing "female empowerment" via overt sexuality & not much else.
beyonce made a complex record with experimental production, feminist thought samples and a number of extremely emotional, personal tracks about difficult moments in her life...it also had some sex in it. because thats what life is. it has sex in it, and other stuff too.
I'm not one to call, or support, using the word "slut", but I do agree with her sentiment that both Rihanna and Beyonce are incredibly talented individuals and could be using said talents to create some more forward thinking, exciting music. They're on the right track, but both still play it pretty safe.
On a related note, I finally got around to listening to the new Warpaint record earlier this week - incredible. Easily one of my favorites of the year.
beyonce does not play it safe at all, rihanna doesn't really either even if her quality has taken a dive for the most part
Totally fine if we don't see eye to eye, man.
I haven't really kept up on their careers aside from a listen or two to some of their albums when they've come out, and I honestly don't listen to much modern r&b anymore aside from my record collections mainstays (D'Angelo, Aaliyah, Maxwell, R. Kelly).
I just think they'd both do well with something that's a stark contrast to the rest of their work, maybe even a really analog, organic, understated album in the vein of There's A Riot Goin' On or What's Going On - that'd be totally rad.
did you listen to the newest beyonce? its a really weird record
Edit: "rocket" in particular is a very d'angelo esque track
Man, nothing. Let her decide to be sexy. But if it's a corporate "sex sells" kind of thing, or part of the cultural standardization and internalization of female objectification, then she shouldn't have to.
It's a double standard too-- I think there was a Marina and the Diamonds video that featured a bunch of scantily clad backup dudes and the media went apeshit because men still aren't allowed to be objectified in our society.
of course she shouldn't have to, but i don't think rihanna or beyonce are exactly beholden to what the corporations want at this point...Rihanna's "Pour It Up" video is a brilliant inversion of masculinity into a female lens, idk idk people much smarter than me talk about this a lot.
and yeah, of course, i've seen that video. dont like the song/her but i liked its subversion of tropes
Good for her, I guess. My sentiment goes beyond Beyonce & Rihanna (with whom I have a more personal struggle with), though. I'm just tired of people proclaiming "f yeah, feminism!" every time a female public figure does something hyper-sexual & then jumping down the throat anyone (especially another woman) who expresses any criticism. It's great if messages in pop culture help women at large feel sexually empowered, but there are many other facets of life where women have historically been oppressed/repressed. For me, feminism says women can make their choices (not just pop star problems, but stay-at-home vs. working moms, breastfeeding, body hair, & all sorts of dumb shit men never deal with) without being impeded, but we can still disagree- how can there be discourse, & ultimately understanding of varying perspectives, if one side is bullied into silence &/or retraction?